Extra cash at HD automated checkup

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says...

I hate having to fill up in self-serve states.
Here in NJ, there have been a few pushes in the past (mostly by the oil companies) to get NJ to change the law prohibiting self serve. But it's been at least 15 years since they tried. I think this is because they discovered that it doesn't save them any money, and may actually end up costing money. Don't believe me?
Most gas stations around here employ 1 or 2 people at any given time to man the pumps. They usually have 6 or 8 pumps, that may or may not have a roof over the top to protect them from the elements.
Most self-serve stations I have been to in other states STILL employ 1 or 2 people at any given time, PLUS they have AT LEAST 8 pumps, sometimes 12, 16 or 20, usually much newer and cleaner WITH a room overhead. The roof and the newer facilities are to attract customers who don't want to be out in the rain pumping gas with dirty pump nozzles. They still need someone inside to take the money, BUT since customers pumping their own gas are slower than a station attendant pumping gas, they need more pumps, they need the roof, they need to maintain the pumps better - all this cost them money AND you still have to get out of your car when it is cold and get your hands smelly to pump your own gas.
But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
-Chris
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snipped-for-privacy@mybluelight.com (Chris) wrote:

This is just silly. The time it takes to stick the nozzle in the tank is insignificant, compared to the time it takes for the pump to deliver fifteen or twenty gallons of gas. Plus, it takes a *lot* more time to pay an attendant, than it does to just swipe a MasterCard in the pump. I try to buy all my gas at stations with credit-card pumps because it saves so much time.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

Have you ever been in "the line" to get gas at Costco? Usually it's some really sloooow person who pulls up, futzes around in their cab for a few minutes, comes to the pump and then fishes for their card, reads the pump directions over several times, places the card in the slot all four possible directions before getting it right, wonder why no gas dispenses and then proceeds to re-read directions, etc. etc. etc.
But you are correct otherwise, pay at the pump is so much more convenient that dealing with cashiers and lines inside...
-Bruce

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Doug Miller wrote:

Plus, you aren't surrounded by people too dumb to pump their own gas :)
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On 17 Oct 2003 09:42:14 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@mybluelight.com (Chris) wrote:

Nope.
So...they have 1 or 2 people pumping gas.

So...they have 12, 16, or 20 people pumping gas.
20 people pumping gas will pump more gas per hour than 2 people pumping gas.

Most of the time, this is not true. Most self-serve stations allow you to pay at the pump. And most folks take advantage of this convenience.

It would actually be the other way around. Full-service folk need to take the payment inside to process it. That takes extra time.
And what if the customer pays by credit/debit card...and its refused. Then he has a collection problem.
Self-serve pre-pay requires pre-approval...which can save a lot of time.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Certified breast self-exam subcontractor.
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

Whoa! Quoting facts is not allowed! Best to state supposition, if you want to remain in the game.
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On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 03:18:57 GMT, Mark & Juanita

Discovery Channel's 'Mythbusters' just recently ran a show testing to see if a cel phone could blow up a gas station [I've seen gas stations that even have official looking signs 'turn phones off']. After several failed attempts with both cel phones /and/ static sparks, they found that it takes a REALLY exact mixture of oxygen and gas fumes to spark a fire. And cel phones CANNOT start one, even under perfect laboratory conditions.
They also found out that women are 8x more likely then men to get back into the car while fueling, then spark a fire with static. But they concluded that it would be a very rare occurence, because of the precise mixture required to ignite from a static spark. They had to use a high power leyden jar to set off their earlier tests.
Ironically, this came up on Oprah a few days later, where they made it into an incredibly big deal. Some idiot 'expert' also said that it was possible for cel phones to spark a fire. Guess which show more people watch? This is just as bad as all the urban legends that wind up in Dear Abby as 'true'...
Make sure you spread the word - cel phones will NOT blow up a gas station.
Other random things: Tanning salons cannot microwave you, microwaves won't 'explode' if metal is put into them, microwaves /can/ make 'explosive' water, but only if you use distilled, a penny dropped off the Empire State Building won't kill anyone,
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On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 06:08:58 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net (Xane "MegaWolf" T.) wrote:

Just to set the record straight, like all legends, there is (was) a grain of truth to this.
In the old days (we're talking before the invention transistors here), 2-way radios were built in two parts, a control head that mounted under the dashboard, and a radio unit, that mounted in the trunk. These radios were big clunky tube things that used many hundreds of volts to generate their RF, and were often mounted near the gas tank filler tube of the car.
Switching from receive to transmit did two things. First it switched the high voltage to the transmitter with an open (un-enclosed) relay contact that often times arced horribly (think massive spark). Second, it switched the antenna wire from the receiver to transmitter (again with a massive spark).
So now you have all the conditions for a good explosion: 1. enclosed space (the trunk) 2. ignition source (the sparking relay) 3. proximity to fuel (leaking filler tube)
And as I recall, all the 2-way radio user manuals of the time cautioned about filling up and transmitting at the same time.
However, nowadays, with today's modern solid state, low voltage electronics, all switching is either done by hermetically enclosed reed switches or by solid state switches so there is no possibility of getting an arc to ignite gas fumes.
Not to mention the fact that a cellphone doesnt have an antenna switch since it's full duplex.
I think the first 2-way radio with hermetically sealed relays first shipped in 1970 (Motorola Micor) but many poorly funded police departments and cab companies continued using the old equipment well into the '80s so it wasnt all that long ago that a car could still blow up.
So yes, it's an urban myth today and deserves to be roundly debunked, but at one time it really was possible to blow up a car simply by talking on your radio. But this is way way off topic now...
dickm
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*AND* the vacuum tubes usually got the required 'high voltage', from a device called a 'dynamotor'. Think of a 12-VDC *BRUSH*TYPE* motor driving a generator that produced several hundred volts. Usually there was near-continuous arcing going on at the dynamotor brushes, *regardless* of whether you were in transmit or receive.

YUP. These were also relatively _high_power_ transmitters -- 50 watt, 100 watt, or even more. there was a non-trivial risk of a 'random' piece of metal(anywhere _near_ the transmitting antenna) acting as a -receiving- antenna with enough efficiency to generate enough voltage to jump a relatively small distance to 'ground'. That big bumper-mount antenna was only a foot or so away from where the gas fumes were pouring out of the gas tank.
Not a _probable occurrence, but the 'downside risk' was "bad enough" to justify 'unreasonable precautions' to avoid it.

The -other- risks, of stray RF pickup/rectification, and jumping to ground do remain. *Virtually* non-existent, however due to the much, *MUCH* lower power levels used -- modern cell-phones transmit with 0.6 watts _maximum_, and as much *less* than that as will suffice to maintain communications. (the cell tower actually 'tells' the phone to reduce power, till its at the 'minimum' effective level. :)

It is *still* a concern, for vehicles running 'higher power" business-band (or other, e.g. "ham") 2-way radio systems, . It is only cell-phone technology where it is a true non-issue.
as noted, getting _way_ off-topic.
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Not really. I've been to Jersey! lol
But they should probably add Florida.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Certified breast self-exam subcontractor.
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<...Previous quote snipped...>:

Yeah, how come Florida isn't included?
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:43:48 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@fellspt.charm.net (Lawrence Wasserman) pixelated:

FL notwithstanding, competence isn't the issue. We don't have to soil our hands with gasoline in Oregon, either. And the guys at Albertson's Express Gas don't accept tips. I like it.
---- - Nice perfume. Must you marinate in it? - http://diversify.com Web Applications
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We don't in Georgia, either. It's just that we are free to choose whether to drive to the self-service or full-service pumps. Based on the choices most of us have made, there are fewer opportunities for the full-service ones, but they are not hard to find. But I'm happy for you if you feel relieved to turn over the burden of that decision to the legislators of your state, who surely must know better than you what you need. ;-)
--
Alex
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wrote:

Like...seat belts?
Have a nice week...
Trent
Certified breast self-exam subcontractor.
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pixelated:

Since I have to pay for insurance and hospitals, I want you to have a seat belt on and a helmet on a bike. I'd prefer that they allow those who chose not to wear them to also opt out of the insurance and hospitalization plans so we didn't have to pay for them. (fat chance of that thanks to bleeding heart liberals) I am VERY happy to let someone who doesn't want to live to die quickly and I have a durable power of attorney (hmm, is that still valid here in OR?) which tells doctors to let me croak should I be too badly damaged or vegetablized in a wreck. (Fat chance of that due to conservatives.)
What a fine mess you've gotten us into, Ollie! ;)
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pixelated:

I just moved up here and found that to be the case. It doesn't bother me any. What bothers me is that CA was heavily burdened by clean air laws and return vents in the pump handles to keep the stinky fumes in the system, but they let any doofus pump it. More times than not, the spring-loaded seals caught sideways and the vapor escaped anyway. We paid more down there for the extra goodies whose effects weren't even enforced.
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I agree that competency is not the issue. I suspect it has more to do with continuing to provide a low level service job. And the level of service I get is definitely low. Typically there is 1 jockey making a half hearted attempt to work 8 pumps. As for tips, I don't know if they are allowed or not, but either way the jockeys don't earn them IMO. I'd rather pump it myself.
Art

[snip]
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It's also nice to pass on the task when it's January, raining like the devil with 50 mph winds; when you're dressed up for some speshul event; or, when you've got a very young one in the car and certainly shouldn't leave him or her while you go in to pay.
As to the higher cost for the no-self-serve that some claim, in northern Oregon, it's only cheaper in the border towns of Washington (all self-serve)- once you travel north for 30-40 miles and hit the mid-section and then Seattle area, it's the same or more expensive than the Portland area.
Sure there are times when the service seems slow, but those are fairly infrequent. I'm in favor of the system -the folks personing the pumps obviously need the work and I'd rather not do the task myself. I pumped my own for upwards of 25 years and can't say I miss it in the least.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
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These are nice points but they don't address the issue of having no choice and being prohibited from pumping your own.
Art

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I'm not sure if you would be prohibited 100% or just for the "masses". I don't know that pump jockeys have a very intensive training program, but today, they may.
There are some people that should not be trusted with such a skill. Perhaps if you went to a particular station on a regular basis the owner would let you pump yourself. Or just take the 90 day training program and get your own certification. Ed
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