Hi. I have a table project going together and my mortise/tenon fit turned out looser than I like. ( HOW it got there is a whole other story! ) My question concerns an adhesive that would help me fill any voids. A fellow named Ed stated that epoxy fills gaps. What ( name brand ) would I look for? Does Gorilla Glue fit this category? Thanks in advance. JWH
Gorilla glue is a polyurathane glue, that foams and fill joints that way. The foam is not structural, however. If it's just a one-time thing, you can get epoxy at most hardware stores, probably close to the glue. Usually, it's a two part system. For small applications, you can get a "double syringe" type thing, that mixes things together for you. If you plan on making your mortises too large on a regular basis, you can buy the stuff in bulk at Lee Valley (and other places). West Systems is a big name in epoxy, I think.
Clint
PS: Keep in mind that I've never actually used this stuff for anything. All the above is from memory, and from reading in here.
I love epoxy for fixing things in just about any material but it takes a little work. Be sure it is well mixed and work it into both surfaces well before you mate them. There are basically 3 types. There is a thick liquid, similar to what they use for table tops. Ace sells it in small tubes but it comes in anything up to gallon jugs and drums. You have pastes like J-B Weld that tend to stay where you put them but might droop some. There are also compounds that are like clay and they stay where you stick them. If these are blind holes and you can position them upright I would use the liquid, work it into both surfaces then add a little extra and shove them together. I am not sure how you would ever get it apart. If you can't hold this upright go with a paste. Look around for something lighter in color than J-B if you think you will slop a little out. It is dark grey. I doubt the clay type will work well on wood at all.
They are for laminating epoxy, but glue is a whole different thing.
Laminating epoxy is almost like water; it has to penetrate all the small spaces in the fiberglass when brushed on. Glue is thick and viscous because it has to stay where you put it; but even glue will tend to flow out of a loose joint unless you somehow stop it. So, yes, it will fill gaps; but you have to keep it in the gap while it hardens!
You can use the liquid and a thickening agent (aka thixotrope). Wood flour will work as will a number of products sold specifically for use with epoxies. Some folks even use wheat flour. Which type you use can affect the colour and workability, including how well it sands after hardening.
Mike
But I've found that pretty easy to do when the epoxy is mixed with wood flour to a molasses consistency. (One can use the super fine dust collected from a random orbit sander as the flour.)
Properly done using epoxy and microballoons will create a joint that will be far stronger than the wood pieces involved.
Forget Gorilla glue, it is polyurethane based, is gap filling, but does not provide structural capability.
Go to the library and get the Gougeon brothers book on boat building.
It is devoted to the proper use of epoxy for all types of applications including furniture and will give you lots of good info.
HTH
.Clearcote Corp. 727-898-8611 4242 31st St N St Petersburg, FL 33714 Product 1114
This is really good epoxy for gap filling. It's waterproof and has a strong bond and doesn't require much clamping pressure. Comes in 2 tubs, you mix two approximately equal dabs. And it sands pretty good, too. Downside- very difficult to remove from skin, wear gloves and don't wash up with laquer thinner, use gritty hand soap. It's like West System, only thicker. Also, which is nice - you get a 45 min. to
1 hr. working time. Got to place another order myself.Ed
Others have given you good advice on the use of epoxy and fillers, but I'd like to offer a suggestion for a simple fix for tenons. Depending on how loose they are, you can glue veneer to the tenon to shim it, or you can apply glue to the tenon and take a plane-shaving and wrap it around it and let it dry. (Repeat as necessary, letting the shaving/glue dry completely before adding another.)
Just another way to skin a cat.
Chuck Vance
No on the Gorilla glue.
I used Systems 3 epoxy, but there are many others that will do the job. Just be sure you have enough working time to fit everything together. The so called "5 minute" ones are good for a quick fix, but not what I'd recommend for wood working. Ed
Epoxy will fill a gap and still be strong. Gorilla glue and other polyurethane glues will foam up and fill the gap but the joint will not be strong. If the tenons are not too loose you could take a plane shaving and insert it alongside th tenon on the loose face, or even wrap the tenon with a shaving if necessary; Then you could use regular yellow glue.
How does the color end up when you use a clear epoxy?
Compared to a water base or oil base urethane.
Rico
You can use epoxy (West System, or System 3) to fill voids. Don't use Gorilla.
Another technique you might consider is to glue on veneer to the tenon cheeks and refit them to their mortises. If you brush some yellow glue onto the tenon and let it dry, then cut a thin piece of veneer to fit the tenon. Use a household iron and iron the thin veneer to the cheek of the tenon. The yellow glue is thermoplastic and will be reactivated with the heat.
Rick
Best to wear several layers of gloves. If the outer one becomes contaminated with epoxy and gunk, just peel it off and you have another clean one underneath.
Vinegar is a good way to remove epoxy from skin if it hasn't completely cured. Less damaging to skin than acetone, thinners and other stuff. Repeated exposure to uncured epoxy can develop an allergy - avoid contact with skin as much as possible.
My preference in gloves are the nitrile. More expensive than latex or vinyl, but tough and resistant to a lot of chemicals. Don't use with ketones (catalyst in polyester and vinylester resins) or analine dyes.
Mike
I believe the System 3, The Epoxy Book, that it's said, "There are two types of epoxy users: those who _are_ sensitive to epoxy exposure and those who _will_ be."
I use System 3 for most of my epoxy needs and once mixed it has a very light amber color. Once mixed with wood dust it pretty much takes on the tone of the dust color used.
If you have doubts about how it may look, as PaullyRad is so often paraphrased, "Test on scrap otherwise you'll be testing on your workpiece."
While I haven't used WestSystem epoxy yet, I called their factory the other day and talked to tech support. Very helpful and informative. Check out their web site
In general, the slower curing epoxies should "soak" into the wood and make a stronger joint. I use denatured alcohol to clean up uncured epoxy. I also use masking tape to help keep the epoxy where I want it while it cures. Use a polyethylene type of plastic to cover the area you're working on - it doesn't stick to that. A good way to mix it is to use a plastic milk container and cut a piece 2 or 3 inches square (depending on how much you need) or a plastic cup (not styrofoam). I cut some spreaders/mixers from a heavier style of plastic bottle and throw it all away when I'm done.
I missed the original question, but re filling gaps with epoxy, I do it all the time 'cause I get gaps all the time!
I have settled on System 3 which also gives you a single epoxy resin and different hardeners for different cure times. I got System 3's wood flour, which is very fine and quite light in color. Additionally, I bought some small jars of System 3's pigmented resins, which are the epoxy resin part with pigments ground in.
Mixed with resin, even in large amounts, it will look darker because of a "wetting effect", you know what I mean!? I needed it for some birchm and added a very small amount of white epoxy resin which made the mix a bit lighter than the surrounding wood, which is good-
I just happen to use System 3, so that's the one I talk about. 'Course if S-3 wants to reward me for naming them, I'm right here :-)
James snipped-for-privacy@rochester.rr.com http:// snipped-for-privacy@breck.org
Polyurethane glue will expand and fill small voids. Have you thought about also wedging the tennons?
John
J>Hi. I have a table project going together and my mortise/tenon fit turned
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