Elmer's Wood Glue Max

http://www.elmers.com/product/detail/E7300
I noticed this stuff at my local Home Depot the other day, and it looks like it's probably Elmer's answer to Titebond III. I love Titebond III, but I don't love the price, and the Elmer's product is a good dollar or more cheaper for a pint bottle. Has anybody used this product, and if so how do you like it?
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i have used a lot of it. When they first started carrying it, the price difference was even larger, so I used it on some glue lam beams that were site built. (LOTS of glue, LOTS of mess, 100 clamps...)
It saved me a bunch of money when the price difference on a gallon was something like $15. Locally, (YMMV) a gallon is still about that much different when comparing the two. Since it has been out a while, the price has closed, especially on the smaller bottles. A look this afternoon revealed $2 a bottle difference in the 16 oz package. Honestly, I can't tell any difference between performance.
I cannot believe I found this (it's so old it has mold on it!):
http://www.diyprojects.info/bb/ftopic70.html
See how many names you recognize after you read the posts. (Leon.... is that you?)
Check out post #18 here... since you do fine woodwork, if it is true, it may be of some value:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?107968-Titebond-vs-Elmers/page2
I have used Elmers for about 3 or 4 years now (they don't always have it in stock) since my big beam, and for all manner of repairs big and small. Never had a hitch. My tightfisted squarehead upbringing won't let me buy Titebond anymore... especially since it is as much as $2 a pint difference here.
As a side benefit, there are some videos somewhere on the internet that compare stainability of TBIII and Elmer's max. I can tell you personally Elmer's is more stainable than TB and stains more evenly, but still, it is just stained glue. You won't mistake it for wood grain.
Robert
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On 1/10/2012 1:38 AM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Thanks Robert; it's always good to hear your perspective! :-)
I don't take on very many projects and I'm a pretty slow and methodical worker, so I don't buy glue in very large quantities. I bought a gallon of TBII once, but it went bad before I could get it all used up, and these days I usually buy quarts. I've been using Titebond III for most everything I do, not because it's waterproof (I really couldn't care less about that), but because I like the texture, the color, and the slightly longer open time, and in my experience it seems as strong or stronger than Titebond II. However, I don't like the fact that (compared to TBII) it seems to have solids that separate and settle to the bottom of the container over time. You need to keep the stuff agitated or it turns into a gloppy mess. Titebond II never did that for me. Wondering how the Elmer's product will fare in this regard.
I started off with a fresh quart of Titebond III on my current rocking chair project (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150315981493293.371101.740833292&type=3 ), and this thing has gobbled up a LOT of glue because both the rockers and the back braces are laminated, so I'm just about out of this batch. I have another chair waiting in the wings, and on this one I want to try the Elmer's Wood Glue Max. It's good to hear you've had such positive results with it; I look forward to trying it out.
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wrote:

I RARELY buy a gallon of glue. Thinking here as I am typing, almost never. But buying two gallons of it gave me *plenty* left over to put in old dish detergent bottles to keep in the truck for miscellaneous use. Otherwise, I would probably have had the opportunity to use it on so many things.

Check out that link above. It seems that TB3 is not as strong as TB2. I have read that in other venues, and even seen other tests that seem to suggest that. I can't remember how long ago that was, and it is entirely possible that the Titebond family has changed formulas. That being said, I have never had a Titebond adhesive joint fail regardless of the numeric designation.

Yeah... what is that stuff in the TB3? One of my amigos (a suspicious fellow, really...) told me that it was some kind of solids to provide better joint filling, hence less resin, resulting in a less strong joint than with TB2. Take that for what it is worth. But personally, I don't to make sure my glue is properly mixed up before I use it.

After a couple of months in the tool box of my truck in South Texas sunshine TB2 will get almost gel like. The first time, I threw the bottle away and bought another. But the second time that happened, I called the 800 # on the bottle and actually talked to a guy in support. He told me that as long as it had no hard lumps or pieces in it, I could use it with no problem. I did and there were no problems. However, when it turns to gel there is a dramatically shorter window for work time. Adding a tiny bit of water will get it back to its original viscosity, but the work time is still much shorter than fresh.
So far, no problem with the Elmer's. This was a pretty long, brutal summer, but the Elmers hung on. It *seems* a bit thicker, but spreads fine.

Hey... not good! I love looking at your chairs and the link doesn't work. ; (
I haven't seen any of your work in a while. All I am doing these days is repair work, so I live vicariously through you, Karl, Leon, and a couple of others.
(As a sidebar, I got to see Leon's new pantry/buffet over the Christmas holidays. WOW.... the man is an artist. Literally, gorgeous work. Didn't see anything new from Karl as he had already installed the giant desk he built earlier in the month. Saw the pictures, though. Most impressive. And then when you see the shop he built it in... he had to go out one shop door and walk around the building to get to the other side of the desk!)

Post up some rocker pictures!
Let me know what you think of the Elmer's.
Robert
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On 1/10/2012 12:48 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Isn't that contrary to another test done by Fine Woodworking (I think)? I'm pretty sure I read in a mag somewhere that III beat II in several categories (but not all), but I didn't get the impression that out and out strength was one of them. Oh well, for what I'm doing they're both probably so strong that any difference doesn't make any... difference.

No worky, eh? Ok, try this one:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150315981493293.371101.740833292&type=1&l610d3345d
I've made quite a bit of progress since these pictures were posted; I need to catch my photo album up to speed. The chair is all together now, and all that needs to be done is final shaping, sanding, and finishing.

Yeah, I can't keep up with either of those boys, especially Leon! He makes beautiful stuff, and he does it ten times faster than I could ever do. I'm too... (what's the word -MIKE-?)... "anal"? :-)
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On 1/10/2012 1:17 PM, Steve Turner wrote:

...
Unless I misread, that's what he said, too.... :)
TB III wins over TB II in
a) Passes ANSI Type I instead of Type II waterproof test, b) Has longer open time, and c) Has lower chalk temperature (lowest, actually).
It doesn't quite meet II in strength; I forget ranking wrt original Type I
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On 1/10/2012 1:58 PM, dpb wrote:

Ok, I was thinking (in the article that I read) that III beat out II in strength, but I could be turned around. It wouldn't be the first time. :-)
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On 1/10/2012 2:00 PM, Steve Turner wrote: ...

Well, I didn't go look up the FWW article, but my recollection was that II beat III in their testing. Again, it's possible my recollection is flawed...
OK, let's see what Titebond themselves says...
Hmmm....there's the question and the anomaly resolved methinks...
They publish that
TBII 3750 psi 72% wood failure TBIII 4000 psi 57% wood failure
in the physical properties section.
The FWW test was exclusively a breakage test iirc. The anomaly in the above data is that they claim a (marginally) higher strength for the joint but there's a significantly higher fraction of failures of the joint over the surrounding wood w/ II vis a vis II.
Explain that! :)
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On 1/10/2012 2:10 PM, dpb wrote: ...

That is III vis a vis II above, of course.
I'll also note that as a "probabilistic engineer" given the marginal difference in strengths and the apparently confounding results of the wood failure percentages I'd wager that while the two values undoubtedly are a mean or median of the test data, it is highly unlikely in my estimation that the difference in the population means would be "statistically significant" at any level of confidence. IOW, I'm guessing there's enough spread in the measurements of strength that the two are essentially indistinguishable in reality.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

snip
I bought a gallon to use for cracked bowls. Sometimes a rough-turned bowl will crack while drying. I mixed titebond II half & half with water, put it in a plastic tub with a cover and submerged the cracked bowl in it for a couple of days. The cracks closed and after drip drying for a week it was still impossible to find the cracks in some. Some didn't work.
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On 1/10/2012 12:48 PM, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: Snip

Hey nailshooter! I had the same problem with TBIII, an unopened bottle. When I called the 800 number they told me to jar the bottle of glue against the palm of my hand 5~6 times. The gel immediately returned to its previous liquid state.
It was great to see you and Kathy and thanks again for dinner!
And now that I can get a hard copy, what was the name of the tints you are using for staining?
FWIW I just learned that Seagrave Coatings is manufacturing Bartley's gel stains and varnishes again. They acquired the Lawrence McFadden stuff when they went out of business. No word about the LMF products yet. The Bartley priducts appear to be available now in very limited colors. Apparently the varnish is available now for about $22 per quart. High priced but worth it if it turns out to be be the same product as the old.
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On 1/8/2012 9:09 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

Looks like; haven't seen it locally yet.
There's really no reason to use Type III unless you really need either a) The extra waterproof (+) feature, or b) The lower chalk temperature.
Otherwise, you're just paying the premium for no reason over Type II or even the old original Type I.
When was using a _lot_, I was buying the "Ol' Yeller" altho I notice the price differential isn't what it used to be for it, either.
<http://woodworker.com/olyeller-wood-glue-mssu-909-293.asp
(+) Don't be confused by the "waterproof" designation. It means it passes the ANSI Type I Standard, but that may not be what you think it means. :) I'll not quote the Standard here, you can look it up, but basically it means it'll stand occasional wet but isn't waterproof in the sense that most think of in common English definitions. If you need that, _then_ is when you need another adhesive; polyurethane, resorcinal, epoxy, whatever....
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On 1/10/2012 1:01 PM, dpb wrote:

Precisely concerning the so called "water proof" TBIII. It is good glue but several years ago Wood magazine did a test of many types of glues. TBII out performed TBIII in the water tests. I questioned Franklin about that and they simply regurgitated the "special" conditions that let a glue company get away with claiming water proof. IIRC it has a slightly longer open time compared to TBII.
I only use TBIII when I am using darker colored wood, oak and darker. I use Gorilla White glue on light colored woods like maple.
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