Electricity under water

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HeyBub wrote:

So none of the Ca/Mg/Mn/K/etc. salts in some of that dirt and stuff manages to dissolve at all, huh? Interesting hypothesis...
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dpb wrote:

Right. It all dissolved in last week's rain. Freshly applied fertilizer, however, is a different matter.
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Water apparently conducts enough to allow for electrolisys (sp?) to occur in rivers and lakes. That is why outboard motors and I/O outdrives (as well as the boats themselves on inboards) have anodes attached. These are made from a metal more subject to being eaten up than the metal on the boat or motor. I believe that for fresh water the anodes are made from magnisium. These anodes are eaten away from fairly natural electric charges in water, but get eaten much faster near commercail docks with electric service. That is usually due to some doofus having his boat connected to the electric service with some type of power leak somewhere on the boat that allows a little charge to find its way to the water. That reminds me, I need to check the ones on my boat which are probably due to be replaced soon ;-).
Dave Hall
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On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 14:43:27 GMT, Robert Allison

You have a nice pure lake there. "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" classifies distilled water as an insulator, although as insulators go, it's a very poor one. 10^6 ohm-cm
Ionized ("impure") water is more highly conductive, but how much so is difficult to predict. Rest assured that some conduction was going on, it was just less than the trip point of the breaker. At least the load was water-cooled. :-)
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"Robert Allison" wrote in message

Not unusual ... when my own house flooded in 2001, and before I could turn the service off, all receptacles under water were still hot and the only ones that tripped were the GFCI in the garage ... which brings up the point that your circuit above ideally should be GFCI breaker protected, for the outdoor purpose stated.
As the builder you might want to consider springing for one after the fact, while you still can. :)
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Swingman wrote:

We originally installed a GFCI. The owners got real tired of walking the 600 feet to reset the breaker. It tripped about every 10 minutes. Replaced it with a different GFCI. Tripped about every 15 minutes. Replaced with standard. Won't even trip when underwater.
My electrician checked the drop and found no problems. He said that on that long of a run, a GFCI is not a good solution due to constant tripping of the breaker. I have found that to be true with several other applications, also.
The way it is set up, there is a 50 amp breaker protecting the line to the pedestal, then to the dock. On the dock is a subpanel with breakers protecting everything else.
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I expect a certain amount of hydrogen and oxygen would have been bubbling up from that outlet. They may notice when they get the power bill.
Like others have said, if the water is very pure, the current would not have been enough to trip the breaker.
-P.
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Electrolysis from an AC source?
I'll have to give that some thought. Every bubble from either conductor would alternate between hydrogen and oxygen. Good one, Peter, now I'll be thinking about that... you know.. a bitf like a song that won't go away...a whistled tune...like Andy Griffith's Mayberry RFD
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"Robatoy" wrote:

Absolutely.
Just check any boat at the yacht club that has a shore power system grounded to the water instead of back to the service entrance.
Those installations EAT anodes.
Ever hear of "ground loops"?
Lew
Lew
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Yes of course. But how does the rectfication occur so that you're left with an anode/oxygen only bubbles? Are you talking about cathodic protection of propellor/shafts and even a steel hull? The good ol' galvanic sacrifice?
Just trying to learn something here.....
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"Robatoy" wrote:

left
even
Rectification?
That is exactly what I'm talking about.
It is the basic reason you NEVER want to go swimming in a marina.
Most marinas that provide shore power will have stray currents in the water and they can kill you.
Lew
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wrote:

Don't immediately see any reason why not.
During the specific half cycle between each zero crossing, the voltage/current is time varying DC.
If there is no time delay between the current beginning to flow and electrolysis beginning, or if such a threshold does exist and it's less than 1/120 sec, then H2O molecules should be split into hydrogen and oxygen during each half cycle.
If there is no mechanism to recombine the hydrogen generated during one half cycle with the oxygen generated during the previous and/or next half cycle, the bubbles from each electrode should contain a mix of hydrogen and oxygen. Possibly separate bubbles, possibly a gas mixture in each bubble, but in either case, not a worthwhile separation technique without calling on Maxwell's Demon to direct traffic.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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On Aug 16, 11:51 pm, Tom Veatch wrote:

Yup, I'll buy that. *in my best Maxwell Smart voice* "the ol' cathode/ anode switch at 60 Hz"
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Robatoy wrote:
| Yup, I'll buy that. *in my best Maxwell Smart voice* "the ol' | cathode/ anode switch at 60 Hz"
Agent 99 would probably suggest that it's really the more recent "cathode/anode switch at 120 Hz" :-)
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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And she'd be right. That Smart was such a dufus. A little 'correction' from Agent 99 never felt too too bad, I bet.
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But now, Smart & 99 are having a difference of opinion. For half the cycle, the voltage is positive, the other have it is negative.... switching only once per cycle. (Taking my shoe off and calling the Chief.)
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Robatoy wrote:
| (Taking my shoe off and calling the Chief.)
ROFL so hard it Hz!
Give it up, Max - one switch from positive to negative plus one switch from negative to positive is two switches per cycle.
Check with Emma Peel - she'll set you straight.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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The cycle starts of at 0 degrees and rotates to a max positive at 90 degrees then positive diminishes to 0 at 180 degrees. Then at 270 degrees max negative diminishing to 0 at 360 degrees. Or, as the Chief says; "One positive lump. followd by a negative hump, polarity changes once."
I want to write more, but Emma is trying to strap me to the bedposts.
Poor me....
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Robatoy wrote:

Is that leather strap , thigh boots and spiky heels
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Mississippi River water can conduct electricity. Go to about the 2:30 minute mark in this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v,hwJiKKBdA&mode=related&search
Kevin
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