Efficient security or Keystone Cops

[Charlie Self]

From an email, called Junk Mail from Bob:

Terrorists are Everywhere!

Baltimore closed down tunnels last month.

lady in Davenport Iowa found a bomb in her home. But it turned out to be just a device to scare away underground aliens. Really!

is serious about antiterrorism. They are undertaking a program to keep terrorists out of bingo halls and other charitable games. They don't actually care if terrorists go play bingo. They just want to make sure the terrorists don't operate any Bingo games.

The state Office of Charitable Gaming received a $36,300 grant to provide five investigators with laptop computers and access a law-enforcement database.

border patrol in Detroit stopped some runners after a radiation sensor went off in the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel during a marathon. None of the runners was carrying a nuclear weapon.

FAA caught someone violating the Aircraft Defense Identification Zone around Washington. He was promptly cited. The problem was, he and his plane had never left Arizona.

a year ago, a lady in Denver didn't want her breasts searched at the airport, so she drove home to San Diego.

few days ago, a 63-year-old lady named Phyllis was fined $2000 and given one year probation after she grabbed a screeners breasts and said, "How would you like it if I did that to you?" The retired technical-college teacher was convicted in July of assault on a federal employee.

[Greg G]

They've GOT to be kidding. Is this stuff for real? I wouldn't be surprised (and I would have cheered her on) if she kicked the judge square in the shin - or maybe just a bit higher. ;-) Federal Employee? Probably an $8.00 hour hire from a temp service.

Greg G.

[Larry Jaques]

On 6 Nov 2005 01:50:11 -0800, with neither quill nor qualm, "Charlie Self" quickly quoth:

You and Bob missed one, Charlie:

and just for the record, all those Al Quaeda boys are all sitting back doing absolutely NOTHING and watching us shit all over ourselves with this anti-terrorism thing.

For the record, recent changes happening in this country aren't about terrorism at all.

They're about total governmental control of the public.

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[John Martin]

Charlie, I'm surprised you omitted the incident with Joe Foss. Foss, a WWII Marine ace fighter pilot and Medal of Honor winner, was flying from Phoenix to address the cadets at West Point. He was searched and questioned extensively because he had with him an object that looked like a throwing star with a sharp pin on the back - his Medal of Honor. To be honest, he also had a Medal of Honor commemorative nail file and a dummy bullet on a keychain with him. But, as a WWII ace and Medal of Honor winner, retired reserve general and former governor of South Dakota - and at 86 years old - he hardly fit the profile of a terrorist. As I recall, they asked him at one point why he hadn't just put his medal in his checked luggage. Incredible.

John Martin

[ATP*]

[Mark & Juanita]

This is one area where I agree with you Charlie. This is a perfect example of our government learning exactly the wrong thing from an event. What 9/11 taught us was not that there were weapons on a plane that shouldn't have been there, what 9/11 taught us were two primary lessons:

1) there weren't enough private citizens on board those planes with the means to defend themselves, and more importantly 2) the claptrap mantra that, "in the event of a hijacking (or other crime), the victims should docilely go along with the thugs' wishes and no-one, or fewer people will get hurt" was proven to be the bogus bunch of hooey that it is. The people on the plane that went down in Pennsylvania got it, apparently the bureaucrats and government statists did not.

The American flying public learned those lessons, thus the capture of the shoe-bomber (even though he was an apparent idiot) and several other instances in which, what would have been the victims in the past, have overpowered and subdued would-be hijackers.

It is very unlikely that a plane full of passengers will sit still for any type of attempt to take over a flight in the future. What the current stupidity and window dressing being done by the TSA goons is doing is taking away useful tools from those potential victims, meaning that the possibility for injury to themselves will be greater when dealing with better armed adversaries who have circumvented the window dressing. All the thugs have to do is look middle-eastern and well-lawyered and TSA won't touch them -- passing them through checkpoints with barely a glance to avoid any possible ramifications from the ACLU. Instead the TSA will opt to strip search a few 90 year old grandmothers in wheelchairs or balding, middle-aged white guys in suits (or a few medal of honor winners).

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[Greg G]

Absolutely - down to the use of a color coded Terror Alert to yank the leash when favor wanes.

Agreed. Poking around the border between Texas and Mexico in 1999 elicited an unnerving confrontation with border agents questioning my activities. (No, I was _not_ picking up a shipment of terrorist weapons.) But at night, all h%ll breaks lose. Look at Botswana for an indication of how easily you can close a border. Motivation is the key factor.

I don't know what the answers are, but it seems to me neither does the

And emotional red herring issues to distract. Hey Folks, watch the magicians _other_hand...

Ride-em cowboy... (No offense to_real_cowboys...)

The bromide claims that genius always skips a generation, but as asseveration we see the father, in contrast, as paragon of wisdom.

I scowl at the shadow he casts upon me with heightening distain.

JMHO,

Greg G.

[Mark & Juanita]

Unfortunately Larry, that's not entirely true. There are numerous accounts of various attempts to probe the security of our air system, one example:

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[Greg G]

Which is one reason I don't believe in gun abolition. (I think it's all there - just read it.) Don't _want_ to use it, play with it, obsess over it, treat it as part of the family - but it IS there if I _have_ to use it. A reasonable deterrent to terrorism, tyranny, yadda, yadda... (But not in bars, planes, malls, schools, asylums, etc, etc.) [/TOT]

Don't forget Cat Stephens and one obviously middle class couple on their way home from vacation. :-\

Greg G.

[Greg G]

And I still can't type - disdain... disdain... Only 98 more times...

Greg G.

[George]

Guess it skipped a generation with you, too?

What we need is for geniuses like yourself to cut lose with your infallible method for detecting a thug without troubling the others people.

While you're at it, how about a cure for cancer.

[Greg G]

One shot - One kill.

Even better, how about a cure for stupidity.

Greg G.

[Greg G]

Missed that the first time.

Do me a favor, and hop on Hwy 94 and leap into South Bay. Better yet, Furnace Bay, 'cause that's where the hot air originates. See, I can cast ad hominem attacks as well. Jeezz...

Greg G.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:26:00 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Mark & Juanita quickly quoth:

The clincher: No arrests & no known terrorists.

If you're afraid of flying any more, Mark, don't. But no self-respecting terrorist is going to be hijacking a U.S. plane at a time when so much scrutiny is placed on flying. They have MUCH easier targets which would cause much more damage to us. That said, the Syrians might be getting a wee bit anxious over King Shrub's potential invasion of their country, and anxiety can breed stupidity. We'll see.

Besides, there's not a damn thing DHS could have done had they been real terrorists. That's the nature of terrorism. It can happen with as small a group as -one- person. It can happen anywhere, any time, and nobody can stop it. Vigilance is pretty much our sole defense. And if you look at the mess we have in the vigilance department now, we're in deep kimchee, dude. (We allowed Syrians in with expired passports, etc.)

Wasting hundreds of billions of dollars while gaining absolutely nothing (and becoming the laughing stock of the entire world) is

-not- my idea of a smart practice. YMMV

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's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design

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[Charlie Self]

Oh, c'mon, Larry. If you had a piece of Halliburton the size of the one Cheney has waiting for him, and some major chunks of oil companies and Hummer makers, you'd be laughing at the rest of the world, just as our adminstration is doing. Alfred E. Neuman and the Sneer. What a combo. If Karl Rove ends up out of the picture, who is going pull the puppet's strings?

[Mark & Juanita]

You apparently missed my other post regarding the current window dressing approach being taken to airport security.

Larry, flying doesn't scare me, I used ot love flying, now what I really, really, really hate is getting to the airplane.

Blaming Bush for all this is convenient, but I guarantee you that had the other party won the White House and control of the congress, what you are seeing now would be a dream compared to the clamps they'd be putting on society right now.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:20:15 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Mark & Juanita quickly quoth:

AM radio can't be wrong, eh?

You got it in one.

Right.

I climbed on a plane less than an hour after the shoe-bomber was caught. Guess what the San Diego security had me do? I was the first person in line (that I saw this happen to, anyway) to have to remove my shoes and belt to have them scanned. And I was personally frisked. I wanted to ask the gal if she'd do it but a guy jumped up instead. ;)

Like our lethal 1.5" long pocket knives? Just to prove what a total crock airport security was, I carried a brand new, freshly- sharpened pencil in my shirt pocket, sharp point UP and in clear view. Said lead came within a foot and a half of the TSA inspector, who said nothing and didn't even eyeball the thing. He did, however, catch the lethal weapon behind me. A pair of round-point bandage scissors which hadn't been opened up so they could see the round points. The lethal blades on that thing were nearly an inch long!

Ain't profiling fun? Our tax dollars at work.

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's Charity and Chastity that are hard. * Data-based Website Design

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[Fly-by-Night CC]

An Oregon veteran experienced something similar, I believe it was about a year ago. Seems a group of WW2 vets were invited to a European town they had helped liberate. During a ceremony the vets were given vintage-WW2-style Zippo lighters with engraving of their unit insignia, the town's name and the liberation date. On the way home the Oregonian's lighter was confiscated in the US by the screeners. He showed them it had never had fluid in it, nor a flint; they took it anyway and wouldn't consider an exception.

Upon returning home, the vet told his story to a relative or friend who then contacted one of the Oregon senators who tracked it down and had it returned to the veteran.

A thought has been rattling around in my noggin' for a couple years: why doesn't the USPS, UPS or FedEx open offices in the airports specifically for the purpose of shipping items that would be confiscated at the checkpoints? Hell, they could even offer to hold the item at the recipient's closest terminal until a specific date the recipient would return to accept delivery. Granted, most items wouldn't be worth the shipping cost, but take the lighter or the Medal of Honor incidents. Or the special pair of sewing scissors Grandma received from Grandpa on their 50th?

[Charlie Self]

You cannot possibly "guarantee" such a thing. You THINK it MIGHT happen. Your answer is total speculation, based on beliefs you have that may or may not be accurate.

[Andy Dingley]

And how do _you_ know this ?

Your logic of "I admit Bush is bad, but it's all the fault of the Democrats" is simple blind partisanship and ridiculous.