Education

You nailed it. Of far greater importance than fancy schools and highly paid teachers, parents who spend time with their kids, and have an interest in what the kids are learning, IMO. My mother started school in what was effectively a one room school house, but her parents helped her get and keep an interest in learning. The local high school was larger and more modern, but kids back then got away with zilch in school. She went on to locate a nursing school that paid a small stipend ($15 a month) plus room and board, and got her RN. This was in

1928, and her studies contined on for three years, culminating in a job with the Feds that paid $1,100 a year, which was pretty decent money in 1931. Parental involvement.

That RN license allowed her to keep our family afloat when my father was unable to work: all of it traces back to my lightly educated grandparents wanting their kids to better themselves. Out of 12 kids who lived to be adults, there were athree RNs, one high school Latin teacher, a contractor (probably made the most money of the lot), an exec for, IIRC, Hechinger lumberyards (granddad had a farm and sawmill--shades of the Waltons and same area, but a whole lot sweatier lifestyle), one was an auto mechanic (taught by my father) who ended up as a teacher of auto mechanics at a local junior college, one guy who worked in a machine shop, an assistant postmaster in Charlottesville, VA, and on. All got away from the farm, or mostly away. My auto mechanic uncle always raised a huge truck garden, filling his own family's needs, and giving the rest (about 70% most years) to local elderly or disabled people. One aunt married a farmer-- he died last year at 92, but she's still going, as is the former Latin teacher and the assistant postmaster.

Reply to
Charlie Self
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True, but today's kids, "hewers of wood,..." ain't exactly accurate. Maybe if these kids had some meaningful chores as was the case 100 years ago and earlier, they wouldn't be so hard to teach. They'd already have some self-esteem, and deservedly so because they earned it.

Today's kids are too often handed money and ignored. Too many parents that I've seen confuse discipline with punishment, too, so never discipline their kids. Parenting is in the toilet today in far too many cases.

Reply to
Charlie Self

"George" wrote

'Rookwood' - William Harrison Ainsworth. Written in 1834, considered by literati to be the last "Gothic" novel. Half way through 'The Lancashire Witches', by same, written in 1845 ... Being the cheap bastard I am, I get all my recreational reading from Project Gutenberg.

Reply to
Swingman

Bingo!

Reply to
Leon

I'll buy your last premise, but the draft dodger bit is pure nonsense. First, there were not all that many draft dodgers. Second, it is difficult to figure which ones could become school teachers; for the most part, they had to run like hell away from the law for most of their college years, so they weren't licensed to teach or do much else. You may be confusing draft evaders with draft dodgers--draft evasion, such as mine (I enlisted in the Marines) is legal, as is coming up with specious excuses for not enlisting or being drafted: just ask Dick "Five Deferments" Cheney ("I've got better things to do").

Reply to
Charlie Self

In some ways, it certainly is better. I'm not sure how well it handles the occasional misfit like me, though. By 9th grade, I was ready to do something else, though I was still doing well in school. The next year saw me totally inactive as a student, a feature that continued throughout high school, with the exception of American history classes and English. I passed and was seldom disruptive, but I sure didn't learn much--to my later regret. I also enjoyed woodworking and machine shop, but had no idea of a career direction--that didn't really come until I was most of the way through college, and 29 years old. I was

30 when I finally quit working my way through college, and sometimes wonder why I bothered. A degree in English lit is not exactly a career opening key, and wasn't intended to be. Part of it was to get my mother off my ass, and part was to see what I could find out about writing in other ages. Those worked pretty well. I still prefer potboilers for recreational reading, but do a lot of reading in various areas of history, archaelogy, and similar subjects. I like to think I have a modest understanding of what has made people tick over the ages, though I'm sure I'm wrong in some areas. The degree was actually more of a start to a true education than it was the end of an education. Too many people today seem to consider any college degree as a ticket to big bucks; mine couldn't even get me a job--which is why I ended up doing what I'm doing. A couple years as a substitute teacher was enough to convince me that wasn't my field.

It may not be generally important to allow a bit more flexibility than the Brits were noted for having, but I think there is some importance, though I would imagine something along the lines of the GED as it is in use today might work. And, hell, I might have enjoyed standing at a lathe or milling machine day after day just as much as I enjoy sitting behind a computer. Or more. Roads never taken...at least not for long enough to make a solid determination. One of my old high school friends combined careers: he was a model making machinist and also road raced motorcycles in the AFM. Today, he teaches sail planing. Gene never finished high school but owns land parecels all over the western U.S.as a retirement package.

Reply to
Charlie Self

"LRod" wrote

Although that word/concept has been thoroughly tainted by the idiocracy, whatever it takes to get the money to go with the kid ... tax incentives/credits/whatever.

Reply to
Swingman

No, but there were a lot of anti-establishment "poor little rich kid" radicals who avoided the draft serially by getting student deferments or their equivalent. I recall fairly vividly that one strategy for staying out of 'Nam was graduate school. So we produced a generation of "educators" who were radical in their politics, suspicious of Western intellectual tradition, and not honestly interested in teaching particularly. The results speak for themselves. Go peek under the covers of pretty much any state or secular private university and see what is being taught in the schools of Liberal Arts and it will make you want to puke.

Reply to
Tim Daneliuk

Here are some fine examples:

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Quote from the U. Of Delaware (since rescinded, I believe):

"[A] racist is one who is both privileged and socialized on the basis of race by a white supremacist (racist) system. The term applies to all white people (i.e., people of European descent) living in the United States, regardless of class, gender, religion, culture or sexuality."

We can trace this kind of intellectual sewage directly to its 1960s counterculture roots. These people have infested our education system and turned it into a madrasah for their radical lunacy. And we wonder why Johnny can't read, write, or think? He was "educated" by people who studied under fools.

Broad brush? Yes. True? Mostly.

Reply to
Tim Daneliuk

Leon wrote: ...

...

Bingo 1...

...

Take inner-city kids, make them 80% of the student body and see how the same school fares over time...

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Reply to
dpb

Ahh, now we're getting down to why some want our kids in private schools.

And of course those same "some" think government should pay for it by issuing vouchers, releiving the parents of the cost of getting their child out of the "undesireables' " schools.

Now, when we take money from Peter (the public schools) to help Paul (the parents who don't want their kids to go to the "undesireables' " schools) how does that improve the already underfunded public education system?

Reply to
LRod

Legacy of Ashes; The History of the CIA, Tom Weiner

I've started Tom Brokaw's BOOM about the baby-boomer generation.

Reply to
Dave in Houston

George wrote: ...

Sherman's _Memoirs_ succeeding Grant's (the latter of which I stumbled into on a recommendation found in reading Ike, the relatively new biography)...now I'm ready to try to find Jos. Johnstone's, Sheridan and wherever that may lead...

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Reply to
dpb

Amen to that. Along those same lines, my sister teaches an advanced science course (8th grade level) as well as the 'normal' level for the same course. On parent night, 100% of the advanced students' class came to talk to her. Only one parent of the 'normal' level class showed up. Hmmmm....... Maybe there is something to this whole parent-involvement thing.

jc

Reply to
Joe

The Soul of a Tree A Woodworker's Reflections George Nakashima

jc

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Reply to
Joe

"LRod" wrote

IIRC, it is taxpayer money that pays for everything government spends. :)

Our schools are not "underfunded" around here by a long shot, they're "misfunded".

Reply to
Swingman

Well it sure isn't the interest from savings. The government at this point is akin to a crack head nephew with your charge card and PIN.

Correct again. One major factor - bloated, bureaucracies stuffed with favor passing cronies - at least around here. Many weak contenders who can not make it through elections consider it an alternate stepping stone to public service. Even when failing to reach that goal, you should see some of the ridiculous salaries - many of which the pubic is unaware of. School superintendent - $238,000 a year. Not a major city, just an outlying country. School board attorney - $420,000 + "bond referral fees" which add up to hundreds of thousands more in some high growth areas. And yep, it's all your money. Wasted.

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

Try to find John McAllister Schofield's "46 years in the Army." He was in the same class at the Point as Sheridan, succeeded him as Commanding General of the Army, served as Secretary of War, was an envoy to France, called the Hero of Franklin (TN, Battle of...) won the Medal of Honor, Schofield Barracks, HI, is named for him. His brother developed the Schofield revolver.

A shirttail relative, he was born 7 miles (and 115 years) from where I was.

Reply to
LRod

And in the Houston area those high paid officials, running our schools, and making hundreds of thousands of dollars are "obviously" the lucky beneficiaries Affirmative Action.. To tell you the truth the last superintendent of HISD sounded/spoke like he had a 5th grade education.

Reply to
Leon

Forgot to mention that the salaries I mentioned are from 15 years ago. They've gotten worse. Apparently GA wasn't much better than Houston last time I noticed. I moved to Florida and ironically enough, the same clown they ran out of GA ended up in the Pinellas County school system - along with his perv son who tormented the locals with helicopters and such over property tax foreclosures on "postage stamp" properties near housing developments. I wonder if they are related to the Detroit Mob Toccos? Nevertheless, he is another Rove/Bush tool. I wonder how these folks rationalize these behaviors with their rolls in public service?

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you, he is now in Fort Worth, Texas.

2004 salary - $314,212. His daily pay rate for 2004 was $1,309.20.

Nice!

Greg G.

Reply to
Greg G

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