Education

[Tom Watson]

Well, I see that the usual Political Scientologists are about.

The geniuses of the moment and the arguers of the nonsensical.

Grab hold of this for a bit.

There has been more than passing mention of Education.

But it always seems to devolve about the "How".

I would like to see us address the "What".

Why, in god's name did we ever teach Latin?

If you thought that was because we gloried in a dead language - mark that as wrong.

Why did we ever bother teaching Literature?

You probably got that wrong, too.

Why would anyone teach History?

...sigh...

There are too many who treat education as a trade school and bear little support to the concept of it being a training ground for - humans - citizens...

You do remember when we were citizens?

Not consumers?

Not voters?

"Next to god, of course, America, I"

Were you paying attention?

It is not about "how" we educate, it is about "what".

As always, make your choices carefully - and keep your eye on the ball.

Regards,

Tom Watson

tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

[jo4hn]

Tom is a poet.

[Tim Daneliuk]

To learn us better English.

To learn us how other people lived and see the common denominators among us all.

To rewrite it so that it suits current political / fashion and to promote the Big State as the solution to all ills, historical and current.

I rather respect trade schools. The produce graduates that do useful things. A good many schools of more better learnin' produce contempt for the values and ideals that make this Republic work, principally because their faculties have never had to sing for their own suppers.

We still are. The term is just being defined downward to mean either mindless nationalism or "progressive" thinking. All else is held in contempt by far too many

The two are not mutual exclusive notwithstanding the romanticized version of our cultural history frequently put forth. Were it not for consumption and consumers, most of us would still be working 16 hours a day on the farm.

An imperfect means to an end, better than all known alternative means of projecting our wishes.

Common and polite use capitalizes "God".

For many years. More recently ... with horror.

That idea lost currency the moment education became a function of the Federal government. Today's "education" is a madrassas for Statism, the rest is but noise.

Yes, do choose politically and socially between the Big State and the Really, Really, Really Big State.

[Stewart Schooley]

[Stewart Schooley]

[Stewart Schooley]

Well, I'm trying out Firefox and haven't got it all figured out yet. Sorry about the empty posts.

Maybe we should talk about 'who' and 'where' we teach. As a retired teacher I know that if a kid doesn't want to learn, no amount of increased educational spending will make him learn and if a kid wants to learn, nothing can stop him.

There are too many schools in this country where 1/3 of the students show up to be students,1/3 shows up to hang out and 1/3 doesn't show up.

It's time to separate students into different schools according to their motivation and to give up the idea that if we spend enough money we can save everybody.

Stewart

[John E.]

I'm curious Mr. Schooley, who gets to decide what level of motivation is sufficient and at what age do you simply write off those who you deem "unmotivated"?

As the father of a child saddled with both a learning disability and an extremely high IQ, I'm naturally curious about your parameters.

John E.

[Lew Hodgett]

learn,

If a kid doesn't want to learn, sounds like a failure of the teacher to properly communicate and motivate to me.

If a kid gets a chance to spend a few days mucking out chicken houses when the temps and the humidity are both about 90, hopefully the kid will learn something like maybe they don't want to muck any more chicken coops.

If they are also informed that without an education, they will probably spend a lot more of their life mucking chicken houses or other similar unpleasant tasks, they will probably get a real big chunk of motivation along about then.

Communication and motivation are tools that work almost every time out of the box.

Know someone who fits the above like a glove.

Today he is middle aged, full blown rocket scientist who put himself thru both undergrad and grad school with full scholarships.

As a 14 year old kid, stole his father's car, totaled it, and damn near killed himself in the process.

It was a defining moment in his life.

Lew

[Joe]

I don't have the solution, but that has to be the biggest bunch of hooey I've ever read.

jc

[Jeff]

There are several typos in that post - mutual exclusive? - yet you chose to pick on this one, why?

[Jeff]

And then he grew up to be Queen of England...

(or maybe not; they don't hand that job to just anyone you know)

[Stewart Schooley]

Children with special needs are a different category entirely. There are all kinds of programs for these children in schools all over the country. Most of these programs attempt to integrate these students as much as possible into the regular school environment and that is desirable.

Spending money on these students and on studies that allow educators to work with health professionals to develop the best programs for these students is money well spent.

Stewart

[Tim Daneliuk]

I was being a wise guy ... no harm intended...

BTW, on this topic, I thought this was interesting:

Daneliuk [e-mail] PGP Key:

[Swingman]

"John E." wrote

I'm the father of one young lady with a severe learning disability and a respectably above average IQ (and with a helluva lot of fortitude and character), who is now a senior in college.

It would boggle most minds to observe the volumes of paperwork, hard drive files, e-mail, letters, minutes of IEP meetings, faxes, documentation of threats/praise/encouragement to teachers/educrats (for doing/not doing what they were paid to do), and the constant vigilance and involvement that was necessary during the "public school K-12" part of the above educational experience.

IMNSH(and very experienced)O ... the "What" we need in today's crippled public education system can be inarguably be summed up in one word ... the only word that is the basis of ALL solutions:

"parents"

[Stewart Schooley]

jc,

I have 33 years experience in education. How about you?

I may have used a pretty broad brush for purposes of brevity, but I am right on target in stating the major problem in education today.

Can't you see that Swingman has it right? The sad truth is that too many parents have relegated their children into being "hewers of wood and drawers of water" and their isn't enough money or knowledge of what to do that will correct this.

It is sad, but never the less we can't allow those who don't want to learn to disrupt those who do.

Stewart

[Swingman]

"Stewart Schooley" wrote

We've discussed this before, back in August of last year:

still like the idea of the old "Tripartite" educational system I saw back in the UK in the mid 60's ... read the above for details.

[John E.]

I noticed you sidestepped my main question, who gets to decide who's "motivated" and who's just a lil bastard?

John E.

[LRod]

That covers more than just education. In a "Dear Abby" (or the equivalent) a couple of days ago, there was an item about a woman who had two 20-somethings living at home and who had just retired. She told the kids she was going to start charging them $30/week rent to help supplement her reduced income and they declined although intending to continue living there. One said something to the effect that he wasn't going to help her pay her mortgage.

My neighbor (who still has teenagers at home) and I (we're empty nesters) were discussing that and we both agreed that there was a severe lapse in parenting in those kids' lives and that the retired woman didn't "deserve" what she got, but she's not entitled to be surprised.

By the way, I am not at all unfamiliar with the concept that there may be more to that story than was presented or published. But on the face of it, there's a lesson which ties into this thread.

[Swingman]

"LRod" wrote

How about, "You reap what you sow"? ;)

[Greg G]

,,,

Hear, hear.

Although at this late date, and after being exposed to some genuinely spoiled little cretins from a variety of backgrounds, I'm beginning to appreciate the Samuel Clemen's style of raising children. Put 'em in a barrel, nail on the lid, feed 'em through the bung hole, and decide at age 18 whether to drive in the bung. ;-)

Greg G.