E-mail from SawStop (long)

[Mike]

I received this e-mail from the SawStop folks this AM. (for anyone that cares).

September 2004

We have recently received quite a few calls and emails asking about the status of our saws, so we thought it would be a good idea to send out this update letter to people on our mailing list.

At the end of August we attended the International Woodworking Fair in Atlanta, Georgia and displayed our new cabinet and contractor saws. The show was a great success and we received numerous compliments on our saws. Many people said our saws looked better and operated more smoothly than other saws.

We started shipping our cabinet saws to customers immediately after the show. However, we have only been able to ship a few saws because many of the saws we received from our manufacturer had minor issues such as paint scuffs, rust spots, and improper cable routing. We are correcting these issues and shipping these saws out, but these issues have prevented us from shipping the saws as fast as we would like. We expect to receive our next shipment of cabinet saws around the end of October. We will inspect those saws when we receive them and then ship them out. We plan to receive additional saws every two or three weeks after that until we fulfill all our pre-orders. We have quite of number of pre-orders so it will likely take several months to fulfill all of them, probably into February 2005.

The contractor saws we displayed at the trade show were engineering samples. There are still a couple of things we want to do to improve the saw (like modify the standard fence and make the elevation gears a little smoother) and we have delayed shipping in order to make those improvements. Our best estimate is that we will start shipping our contractor saws in December.

We have sent and are sending cabinet saws to various magazines for review. We understand Fine Woodworking magazine will publish a review of our saw in their next or subsequent issue.

We appreciate your patience as we work to bring out our new technology. When you see our saws we are confident that you will consider them worth the wait. As always, please feel free to call or send us an email if you have any questions or comments.

Sincerely, Stephen Gass President

SawStop, LLC

22409 S.W. Newland Road Wilsonville, Oregon 97070 USA Phone - [phone] Fax - [phone] Email - [e-mail]

[Dave Hinz]

Speaking as someone completely not interested one way or the other about the saw-stop mechanism in general, the above is a huge danger sign to me. If you're having supplier problems, OK, maybe. But, what motivation would one have to tell specifically that there are not only packaging problems (paint scrapes), materials problems (rust spots), and also procedural problems (wiring the things wrong)? Sounds like an uncontrolled source for materials. Not a good sign.

Don't get me wrong, I think the saw-stop is an intriguing idea, but the above in the letter screams "run away" from a build quality perspective. Can't wait to actually see one, though.

Dave Hinz

[mbrooks]

These guys haven't given up trying to FORCE sales, this is just the opening round. Be alert, there will be more agitprop from them.

[Mark L.]

Sounds like he's been buying Unisaws.....

minor issues such as paint scuffs, rust

[Vic Baron]

IMHO, SawStop is a good idea BUT it should be a low priced optional add on. I dislike their forceful attempts to FORCE me to buy a saw with their product installed. Now, they want to market their own saw. Read between the lines folks - in order to get the SawStop you have to buy an inferior quality, unproved saw.

Just doesn't make any sense to me. If I wanted the SS, I'd buy a good saw and figure out how to get it installed.

BUYER BEWARE!

Just MHO,

Vic

[Ba r r y]

He didn't say anything about missing parts. That would be the Delta I know!

Barry

[Edwin Pawlowski]

What makes it inferior? Have you seen one?

[J]

Sawstop says "However, we have only been able to ship a few saws because many of the saws we received from our manufacturer had minor issues such as paint scuffs, rust spots, and improper cable routing."

Doesn't sound superior to me.

-J

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Sounds like most every saw on the market. One difference though, they are fixing the problem. Those things don't necessarily affect the performance of the saw when it comes to cutting. They may in fact be crap, but they may also be the best working saw on the market. I'll reserve judgment until I see one or at least get a report from customers that would know.

[Jay Pique]

I saw it in Atlanta, and it seemed inferior to an Altendorf, but not a Unisaw.

JP

[Bruce Barnett]

Do they have a real price yet? Or is it still vaporware?

Any news on the cost to "undo" once the saw stops. Or is it a simple press-a-button reset?

[Robert Bonomi]

No, it is _not_ a press-a-button reset. there is a one-shot "cartridge" that has to be replaced.

As I recall, it's about US$80 each. Plus the time/effort to replace.

It's also not clear how much alignment/tuning has to be done after replacement.

[Mark Morin]

I guess I look at this in an entirely different way. First, I applaud them for investing several years of their time and money to attempt to improve the safety of table saws and make a buck for their effort. Like any other free market enterprise, they have a chance of never recovering that investment, but at least they are taking the risk. It appears that they believe in their product as a better idea, not simply a "me too" addition to the woodworking world.

Regarding it being offered as an option, the company persued that with the major manufacturers, who considered the additional cost too high. The design is not a simple bolt on accessory. I wish it was a low priced add-on also, but then again, I also which an integrated mind-reading your-about-to-do-something-stupid telekinetic wireless nanosecond premptive off switch was a low priced add-on too. The statistics on table saw injuries is not good. I'm sure if there was an inexpensive technical solution, SawStop would have a competitor.

Regarding the quality, yes, I probably wouldn't be that specific on the manufacturing startup problems in letters by the president. Most companies have these, they just don't publish them during the startup phase. Startup problems such as these are *extremely* common. As someone else implied, at least they are exercising quality control. I've received Delta tools (not new models) with similar problems and they have had years to fix the problems.

For me, the real issue is does it work. I've seen the hot dog demo. I hate to admit, but I'm waiting for the customer testimony of the people whose fingers were cut slightly but saved from being sawed off.

-- Mark

[Leon]

Or broken trunnions.

[Leon]

I see your point but the alternative is to do like Delta. Ship the Unisaw and blame all those broken trunions on the shipper, then years later when realizing that the shipper is not damaging other brand saws that it might be a factory problem. They did later admit it was an assembly problem. Or there are those that think good service is how quickly new broken parts are shipped before the tool can be used. To me, good service is not having to call service. Get it right before shipping. SawStop is at least trying to fix problems rather than have you fix the problem.

[Leon]

No, it sounds typical. Except for the fact that they are trying to fix the problem so that you will not have to an many other manufacturers require you to do.

[Leon]

If you visit their site, you can become educated on how the set up works. No, it is not a simple 1 button reset. The cost to undo if paid 20 times for 19 false stops and 1 positive stop times would still be much cheaper than a trip to the emergency room.

[Leon]

Actually if it saves 1 trip to the emergency room you could "screw" replacing the cartridge and tuning and just buy a brand new saw and still be ahead.

[Jim Behning]

[hex]

press-a-button reset?

Ok, but I still have seen NO DATA on their false trip rates. How do you know that 19 of 20 is even close to a reasonable guess --- what if the false trip rate is 199,999 our of 200,000? Is it still an economy?

I commend the Saw Stop folks for building their own saws since the other mfg's turned them down. I cannot, however, condone their attempts legislate mandatory use of their product.

If they truly have a better solution to a REAL STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT problem then they will win on competitive grounds alone. Consider a commercial cabinet shop: if the dollars and sense work out, their insurance company will be making it worth the shop's while to replace old dangerous equipment with SawStop products.