dust system auto on/off

I have seen gadgets that sense the current flow in a circuit when the chop saw is turned on, and it then turns on a plug that the dust collector is plugged into.
What I want is some type of plans for a home brewed one. I have a variety of relays and magnetic contactors to work from.
Anyone know of some plans, or smart enough to draw something I can build?
--
Jim in NC


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On 5/16/2014 9:20 AM, Morgans wrote:

For less than $20, why bother:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00924031000P
Or:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v
ÎRy3XBMAis
https://www.google.com/search?q=building+an+Automated+Vacuum+Switch+schematic&rlz 1CHFX_enUS454US454&es_sm2&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=FSV2U4O7L9GcqAbMgoGQAg&ved EMQsAQ&biw20&bih15
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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On 5/16/2014 10:20 AM, Morgans wrote:

Have you searched the internet?
--
Jeff

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I've made several of these. The first one I made using a small current transformer (CT) from Functional Devices. I had to use it to power a relay that turned on a small power transformer to turn on a larger relay to turn on the vac. Clunky but functional. The next one I made used another relay in a box (RIB) from Functional Devices. This one had a CT on board. I experimented with the size of a dropping resistor connected from the CT to the load circuit to get it to work. The resistor had to be subbed each time you changed to a different vac. Again not elegant but functional. A year ago, the FD people offered a relay with a CT and an adjustable time delay off load relay. P/N RIBD01BDC-DOB. This thing is the cat's meow. All you have to do is connect the box to a regular 4 square with a split duplex outlet, one for the saw, one for the vac. I got fancy and used a panel mounted recessed plug for the line connection, although you could substitute a cheater cord. I think when I got done I spent about $75, but the relays are 10 amp motor duty and it's rugged and portable - a requirement for all the left feet in my shop. If you're interested in a schematic, let me know. I'll hold my beer in one hand and draw one up for you on the back of the napkin.
Steve
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I think I have enough of a clue to build one with the junk I have on hand now. The problem with the one like Sears is that if the unit all runs off of one circuit, there is not enough capacity to run two 13 amp units. I'll fix that in my design.
--
Jim in NC


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On 5/16/2014 10:56 PM, Morgans wrote:

IVAC has one that takes 2 ckts in, and puts 2 out. (Amazon.com product link shortened)
--
Jeff

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On 5/16/2014 9:56 PM, Morgans wrote:

Is the supply circuit going to handle 2-13amp units? Unless you configure in a delay, which most of these units have built in you might be popping a breaker every time you start the saw.
For instance, my Festool vac turns on a second or two after starting the power tool. The power tool plugs directly into the vac for power. I don't recall the amps that the vac pulls but it is suggested that the suction be turned down when running larger power tools to decrease the chance of blowing a breaker. And IIRC the vac and power tools are soft start to cut down on the surge.
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Maybe he likes building electronic stuff for himself the way we like doing woodworking for ourselves.
I can't remember building anything for myself that was cheaper than if I'd bought one. Sure, mine might be more durable and solid, but not cheaper. :)
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wrote:

Yep, I like to dabble in all things. But mine will be virtually free, if it come out like I think. You see, I have been organizing my work area, and I have more stuff than I ever dreamed. I made boxes to store stuff, just to organize and to par down my excess wood supply. I have to reduce the "stuff."
By the way, anyone have need for a Velux skylight, from the early 90's with flashing kit, that has never been installed? Good condition, in box. It has to go. Size is about 4 foot by 4 foot. West Central NC area. Will ship if you pay shipping.
I counted it up. I have a wall of storage boxes, about 7" x 8 1/2" x 13". Some are double and triple wide, but if they were all singles, I would have 225 boxes. They are filled with either tools of any type you can imagine, or supplies of any description and quantity. Then there are about 10 boxes that are about 50% larger. Then there are two sets of shelves 2 foot x 8 foot and about 6 foot tall, and one set about 1 x 8 x 12. Two rolling tool chests. That does not count wood storage.
I'll post some pictures a few months down the line when I get it somewhat close to like I want it.
So, I think I have everything I need to make a dust collector automatic switch work, free. I am going to start with trying to make my own transformer/current sensor. I have some old ones I can rewind to handle the amps. Next in line, a bridge rectifier, which I think I have the parts for, which the output will go to a big transistor left over from my dad's days of fixing his own tv's. The switched output from that will close the switch to let 24 volts from a power supply energize the hold in winding for a magnetic starter, to turn on the dust collector. I will experiment with some capacitors and resistors to keep the transistor energized after the current is gone, to give it a time delay, so the collector is not starting and stopping all of the time. I will shoot for 20 to 30 seconds. If that does not work, I think I can hack an outdoor motion detector timing circuit to get the desired time delay. The auto switch will also have two current sensors, one for 110 and one for 220.
I need to rewire the shop, since I have drop cords running everywhere for machines. I plan to run a two circuit 20 amp 110 line, one leg fed through the auto switch, and one leg not. At each machine station, I will place a switch, to feed the outlet from the sensor circuit or the non auto run circuit. That way I can decide if I want to be starting the dust collector all of the time. All of the 110 stuff will go on the same lines. It is just me, so there really is no need to be able to run more than one machine at once. The 220 equipment I have is just the table saw and air compressor, so those will be separate, with just the table saw on the auto option. There will of course be various other lighting and receptacle branches for other stuff through out the work area, along with ventilation exhaust fan, and air filter, and entertainment (tv and stereo and computer) stuff.
The you tube video that Leon, or someone posted on the guy making a switch for his dad got me going. Thanks for that, whoever that was. I only have a shop vac and a dust collector I made from an old barrel and an electric leaf blower, but it is too small. I may use it for a boost somewhere, if I need it, or just as a vac. I am going to make a dust collector along the lines of the one I saw on you tube, which was made from an old portable table saw. I have one of those, at 10 amps, but am going to use a chop saw motor I have that got run over by a Lowes truck that is larger at 13 amps. I only need to find a drum that will stand the vacuum, to be able to build it.
Big plans, huh? It will take a while to do it all, but I only have time on my hands, being disabled. I work for an hour and lie down for close to an hour. Like eating an elephant, it will all get gone, one small bite at a time.
--
Jim in NC


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On 5/16/2014 9:20 AM, Morgans wrote:

Ah come on now. LOL I think most of us are relatively smart, how smart do we have to be to understand your level of comprehension? ;~)
Give yourself more credit man!
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wrote:

Just use a double pole switch for the saw, and have the second side control power to the transformer that supplies power for the contactor.
If your saw uses a contactor, get a "pilot contact" for the contactor and have it switch the low voltage to the DC contactor, or connect a transformer to the switched side of the contactor to supply the low voltage for the DC contactor. Or build a circuit that "hears" the saw run and turns on the dust collector???
Lots of ways to skin this particular cat.
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Good find. I still have to try and do it myself for free, ya know! I'll go to that one if mine does not work.
--
Jim in NC


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Oh, that is the reason I did not like what I had seen for sale. It would not, I think. The dust collector will be pushing 13 amps and the chop saw also 13 amps. Now way even a 20 amp circuit could hold that.
My design will have 2 power inputs, most likely 20 amps on each one, and I will make sure that both are fed from dedicated breakers on the same side of neutral so there will be no possibility of coming across 220 inside the box. With that going on, I will not worry about starting the saw and the DC at the same time.
--
Jim in NC


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On 5/17/2014 9:37 PM, Morgans wrote:

You still haven't said how you are opening the gates. I think it's much easier to pull a gate open and turn it on. Rather than relying on the machine being on.
--
Jeff

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Yep, but I think I'll go with my way. Too much noise in a shop too spread out for an audio switch. None of my stuff has contactors. Too much equipment or not practical to put two pole switches in everything.
I plan on starting the dust collector on auto (or at least will be able to choose to) for a shaper, router table, lathe, jointer, plainer, radial arm, chop saw, sanding table, stationary belt/disc sander and table saw. All will be sensed when they are run because they will all be on the same line, which the auto switch will be on, except for the table saw (being on 220) will have its own current sensor in the switch.
--
Jim in NC


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On Sat, 17 May 2014 21:45:53 -0400, "Morgans"

That's ok if you have current sensors. But simply wiring a low voltage transformer across the motor leads and connecting the output to the relay operating the dust collector is a whole lot simpler - - - any machine running supplies energizing current to the relay, and on goes the dust collector .
For the 220 table saw you just need a transformer with a 220 primary.
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On Sat, 17 May 2014 21:29:45 -0400, "Morgans"

I've got a good handfull of old bell transformers, thermostat transformers, 12 volt wall warts, and power transformers out of all kinds of transistorized stuff - bet you do too. Keep it as simple as possible, but no simpler - - -
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True, but If I am using one machine and cutting, then fitting, I would rather the DC not run the entire time I don't need it, and I sure don't want to repeatedly close and open gates to turn it on and off.
Much better to me to open the gate I need and leave it open until I don't need it, and let the switch auto on and off when it is needed.
--
Jim in NC


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