Dust Collector Nightmare HELP!!!

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Before I became educated on static pressures, duct size, cfm and the 23 different stylizes of impellers. I installed 3" pvc ducting to all my tools in a 2 car garage. Near as I can tell I need a 16" impeller and at least 5hp blower to run this setup. Nope can't find a dang thing. I really need a complete blower as my sheet metal skills are non existent. Please I know someone has been through this any and all advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.
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I don't doubt your analysis but I'd sure like to know how you deduced that you need a 16" impeller and 5 hp motor. How does rpm of the motor affect impeller diameter?
Do you have shutoff valves or gates to each of the tools or are all of them being sucked at the same time?
BTW, I can't cite the magazine but I have seem how-to articles on dust collection systems that might help....
Good luck!

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Hi Bill,
I can't argue with your figures, but you might be over analyzing this. If you have a blast gate at each tool, any normal DC will pobably do the job. Although I sometimes wish I had a bigger unit, the 1 HP Penn State model that I have does a very good job through 4" PVC from 5 different machines throughout my basement. Don't forget the ground with PVC.
Lou

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What are alternativest to PVC? furnace pipe? I can't seem to find any 4"
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mark wrote:

They sell it at both Home Depot and Lowes in the plumbing department. I've never been in one that DIDN'T sell it.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

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You know what, you are right. I have two old propane furnaces I was going to use for my shop heat, and they require 5" -- I think THAT was the one I couldn't find, now that you mention it....so my dust collection needs are met. :) I see a lot of catalogs that show the flexible plastic see thru stuff hanging on hooks -- I can't imagine that this works very well. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack the thread. Back to your regularly scheduled program.
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mark wrote:

You didn't hijack the thread. It's the nature of these discussions that we go back and forth.
As a point of possible interest, I just went through a little plumbing project myself: running tubing from my 1.5 HP dust collector to my table saw, RAS, jointer, floor sweep, and an auxilary port. I used a combination of 4" PVC and the free 50' of 4" hose that came with the dust collector (plus a bunch of blast gates and fittings). I can post a picture of my Rube Goldberg creation in APBW if anyone's interested. Of course, if I do, you have to promise not to laugh.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

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They should have 5" too... it's code in most areas for second floor heating applications (Ontario for sure) -Brian
: : > They sell it at both Home Depot and Lowes in the plumbing department. : > I've : > never been in one that DIDN'T sell it. : > : : You know what, you are right. I have two old propane furnaces I was going to : use for my shop heat, and they require 5" -- I think THAT was the one I : couldn't find, now that you mention it....so my dust collection needs are : met. :) I see a lot of catalogs that show the flexible plastic see thru : stuff hanging on hooks -- I can't imagine that this works very well. Sorry, : didn't mean to hijack the thread. Back to your regularly scheduled program. : :
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I've found 4" ductwork At Menard's and the Orange BORG.
Bowhunter
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Can't see any reason why furnace pipe, 4" or 5" wouldn't work, as long as it doesn't leak. You may be in the wrong department looking for the PVC. Your cheapest type will be DRAIN pipe, not supply water pipe, it's much thinner. I have seen it at Loews and Home Depot for around $4 per 10' length.
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<snip>

This is what I used, mainly because it provided a better (tighter) fit with the black PVC bends which I picked up at the local WW store.
They work fine.
Lou
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Bill wrote:

That's a honkin-big dust collector. 3" PVC is not likely to flow enough air to utilize the full power of anything that size.

You could start with one of Clarke Echols welded blower housings <http://www.cleanshopair.com/BlowerHousingDescription.html and a Sheldon's Engineering 14" material handling impeller <http://www.sheldonsengineering.com/html/BillPUS.html with a 5 horsepower Leeson motor <http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/120554.htm . That housing is a welded version of the Bill Pentz plywood and sheet-metal design <http://billpentz.com and look for "budget blower".
The blower housing is designed to work with a cyclone, but with a couple of sheets of MDF and some ducting it should be possible to adapt it to serving in a non-cyclone dust collector. Or you could build one of Bill Pentz' cyclone designs <http://billpentz.com/ --Clarke's is based on Bill's design, and it will fit, barely, under a 7 foot ceiling.
If you have 3-phase power you can get a 5 horsepower dust collection blower from Penn State Industries <http://www.pennstateind.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code 500MB&Category_Code3600>, but again it's a 14" impeller.
--
--John
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You're not going to like the answer, but I think you need to consider changing the ductwork rather than trying to increase the size of the dust collector. When I went through the analysis, 5" duct seemed to be the optimum for a home shop -- check with HVAC supply companies for metal spiral pipe.
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I believe you lose a lot of velocity with spiral ductwork. The shop I used to work in had spiral ductwork and that cyclone system never had the flow I would expect. It had 6 or 8 dust bags and made all kinds of noise but not enough volume. You get all kinds of leakage from the little joints, internal turbulance from the rough texture. I would rather see 4 inch pvc than 5 inch spiral metal. I guess I would have to do some research to support my position but I know that all the duct mastic I added to that spiral system did little to increase the flow. Yes the system had blast gates and I cleaned the filter bags.

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Jim Behning wrote:

Bill Pentz discusses this and has numbers for various types of ducting. Spiral duct is indeed not very good from a flow viewpoint. And smooth metal duct unless it's very heavy generally won't stand up to a big dust collector with all the blast-gates closed, so PVC is the obvious choice.

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--John
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Well your right I don't like that answer, but I think you are right. Ever had a bad idea you just wouldn't let go of? Yes I have blast gates for each tool and have read all of Bill Pentz pages that's why I am where I am. How bout this I buy the 14" impeller and make a belt driven pulley to increase RPM will this make much of a difference or do I really need to take down all of that pipe. Thanks

at
existent.
dust
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It's time to let go, Bill.
The collected experience of an entire industry points you in a different direction. And you seem to be leaning towards spending more money than you otherwise would need to, on a non-standard solution, with no guarantee of success.
I can see that easily in others. And yet it took a bunch of head banging to get me to stop trying to repair that darned Maytag Neptune washing machine, over and over again. ;-)
Wanna borrow a hard hat? ;-)
Patriarch
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Bill wrote:

Increasing the RPM shouldn't make any difference in flow--once the impeller's stalled out more RPM doesn't help very much. And even the material handling impeller will stall out if the flow is restricted enough.
Might not need to take down all the pipe though, plumb it into the big ducts and then only run a big one where the little one doesn't do the job for you.

--
--John
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On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 10:42:15 GMT, Jim Behning

This is true with plastic flex pipe. The metal spiral pipe I'm talking about is smooth on the inside. Like: <http://www.pennstateind.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PSI&Product_Code=N-BC05%2F5&Category_Code=ALL5 This type of ductwork has very low static pressure loss.
The kind I bought is lined with goretex on the inside.
The spreadsheet on Bill Penz's website: <http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm also supports this. Anecdotally, I know that the metal ductwork with my 2 hp Woodtek system greatly improved the performance of my system vs. what I had set up previously. The key is making sure the system is well sealed with silicone seal. As I said, at least with the ductwork I got, there are no leaks due to the gore sealing.

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I am striking that old collection system I was talking about this week. I shall inspect the inside of the metal spiral ductwork. I still suspect it is not as smoothand leakproof as pvc.
Duct mastic is a whole lot less expensive then caulk and installs much faster. Just brush it on.
Now you have me curious. What duct has a gore lining and do you have a link?

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