Dust Collection Questions

As if the $799 uni and the $223 incra fence wern't enough, I decided to get the dust collector. The one on sale is 4800cfm and 5hp compared to my current 1100cfm and 2hp. So four times the suck, if you can quantify such a thing. :cool:
The new one has a 10" inlet port with a manifold (is that what it's called? reducer?) that brings it down to four 5" ports. So I have several options:
1 - I could run 10" ducts to all the machines, get 10" blast gates and covert all the DC hookups to 10" (haha)
2 - I could use the 5" reducer thingy and keep three of them plugged. Then run the fourth with 5" blast gates to each machine. I would then need to either reduce the 5" hoses further with an adapter or make/buy adapters on the machines that work with 5" hoses.
3 - Immediately reduce the 5" ports to 4" and run 4" hoses with 4" blast gates everywhere. This is the cheapest since I have a lot of 4" flex hose and 4" s&d pipe.
4 - Run 5" or 4" with a reducer to each machine and quit worrying about blast gates.
5 - Find a 10" to 6" reducer and run 6" pipe/hose to all the machines with 6" blast gates. This seems like the option that makes the most sense to me.
More points: I'm unlikely to ever run more than one machine at a time. But in the future, say over the next five years, my older kids could easily start woodworking, so the extra capacity could be nice. Also, the DC runs are likely to be short since I'm going for the centralized DC shop layout with machines orbiting rather than running DC pipe along the walls to a DC in the corner.
And lastly, what do I do with my old DC machine? I'll probably sell it and use the money to buy 6" (or whatever) hose, clamps, and blast gates. Any reason to have two?
Here's my old one:
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
brian
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wrote:

Are you in the Chicago area?
Mark (sixoneeight) = 618
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round lake, about 15 minutes west of vernon hills.
brian
Markem (sixoneeight) wrote:

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brianlanning wrote:

Well, if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing. 4800cfm...droool... Tom
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tom wrote:
>Well, if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing. 4800cfm...droool... Tom
I know. It's ridiculous. The one I'm replacing is 1100cfm. I had been planning to eventually get a cyclone with around 2000cfm, but this one was such a great deal, I had to jump on it. I'm trying to figure out how to get a cyclone hooked up to this. My trashcan separator isn't enough.
The next tool on the list was actually a drum sander before the latest amazon silliness. I was thinking about the grizzly g0449, but the 4 dust ports on the top made me worry about dust collection. The manual says 1600cfm at the sander is minimum and 2000 is recommended. I guess that's not a problem now. :-)
I'll probably just end up with a performax 22/44 and spend the extra money on a spindle sander and edge sander. the big sander is calling my name though. :-)
If I get the $250 I'm asking for my old DC with all the 4" accessories, I'll be out $420 for this monster.
brian
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brianlanning wrote: snip> If I get the $250 I'm asking for my old DC with all the 4" accessories,

Plus the cost of new ductwork, of course. Having the DC in a central spot might be helpful in the suction department, but I wonder: It seems that with something this big, you could stash it a couple of city blocks away, run large diameter ducting and still clean up! I'm kind of doing the same thing with a shop-built air cleaner. Ever see that video of the airman getting sucked into that fighter jets' turbofan? Tom
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tom wrote:

You're right. It looks like I'll be running 6" ductwork to the machines. the 6" s&d is the easy part. I need a source for reasonably priced blast gates and flex tube. Someone on sawmill creek pointed out that with all the blast gates shut, I may not have enough velocity in the hose to keep the dust suspended. I guess I'll have to experiment a bit.

This was originally part of my reasoning for going that route. I was planning to make a post, maybe 1' or 2' square that runs floor to ceiling and park the DC and compressor next to that, then put all the machines around it. That would give me an easy place to attach the subpanel and 220 outlets. It could also serve as a DC distrubution area with 6 or 8 blast gates mounted right there coming through the post with one hookup at the bottom for the DC. I could then get one of those GUV shopvacs and attach it to the outside of the post, or better yet, inside. Then when it's time to move, just take the post.
I'll have to give it more thought now.

It shouldn't matter where I put it now. I could put it in the basement, but there's no way to get the ductwork into the garage. If I were going to be here permanently the DC and compressor would certainly be down there.

lol, yeah, I saw it. I can't believe the guy lived. I'm still squeemish from the miter saw stand incident. The last thing I need is to get sucked into an impeller now. :-)
brian
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brianlanning wrote: snip- Someone on sawmill creek pointed out that with all the blast gates shut, I may not have enough velocity in the hose to keep the dust suspended.-snip
I'm pretty dense, but I don't understand why someone would make that statement. When you close all the blast gates, of course the velocity will drop, but then you're not using the DC either, so no dust to suspend. Hey, with all the gates shut, this DC would probably crush most metal ducting. Any idea how many inches of mercury this thing'll pull? Tom
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tom wrote:

I mean all but the one I'm using. He was saying that if you have a 10" trunk line, then drop a 4" line to a machine, and all the other 4" drops are closed, then when that 4" air gets to the 10" trunk, it slows down. When it slows down, the sawdust can drop out of the air and fill the tube. I guess if it's a problem, just leave them all open. :-)
brian
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Previous post on this subject. Sorry, the naval facility link seems to be dead. http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/browse_thread/thread/84e03d3d1fcbd882/eee981e40e54cc76?lnk=st&q=dust+naval+%22david+merrill%22+group%3Arec.woodworking&rnum=1&hl=en#eee981e40e54cc76
David Merrill

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David Merrill wrote:

Yeah, that's what I was hearing. I'm not so worried about the fire hazzard. I mean it's either a fire in the duct or a fire in the pile of sawdust at the end, right? Besides, I really doubt you could start a fire with a dull blade and burned cherry. Now if you it a nail in the wood, that could cause problems.
For now, I'm planning to put a 10" to 6" reducer on it and run 6" flex hose 6' to 10' to each machine. I doubt I'll have problems with this until I get in my permanent shop and hide the DC in a separate room.
brian
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You missed the point; you might want to read the last paragraph in my linked post again. "Moral ? Run with enough ducts open to prevent fallout in a larger main run"
Now, as to concerns about fire: - Are you running a commercial shop with employee safety/liability concerns? - If a hobbyist, do you have family sleeping upstairs or in adjoining structure? - Note that my post references at least one documented instance of a fire. - You know how to moniter and deal with the pile of sawdust at the end; it's the unsuspected and out-of-sight accumulation in the ducting that is less obvious.
I don't think we're in any disagreement here as you already indicated a knowledge of the significance of maintaining sufficient flow in your larger main ducts. I just wanted you to know that the concerns are apparently real.
David Merrill

be
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodworking/browse_thread/thread/84e03d3d1fcbd882/eee981e40e54cc76?lnk=st&q=dust+naval+%22david+merrill%22+group%3Arec.woodworking&rnum=1&hl=en#eee981e40e54cc76
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David Merrill wrote:

My point was that I won't have a larger main run. And when I move in a couple years, I'll address the issue then.

Fire is fire. I think I would be just as screwed either way. I have a fire extinguisher in the shop. But a fire inside the DC or the pipes might pose a problem. Maybe I should think about clear ducts so it's obvious if there's buildup. For now, I'll probably use clear flex hose.

Just like DC dust explosions from not grounding plastic pipe? ;-)
I bet they sucked up a glowing chunk of metal. Finding that after the fire would be a needle in a haystack. That's not to say that I couldn't just as easily suck up a glowing chunk of metal.
brian
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That would be my thoughts. Why do you need blast gates when he DC is sized that large?! Run an adequately sized main, with 4" drops to each machine, and let'r rip! Greg
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Greg O wrote:

Originally, I had my 1100cfm (what that it? I can't remember) DC running through a lot of 4" s&d and flex hose, then into my router table which was in my table saw, which had a 4" opening on the same hose. I couldn't close one and open the other. This scenario kind of worked well enough, but left some dust in both machines. And I wanted to add a 4" hose to the top of the machines to plug into the router fence and an as yet non-existant over arm blade guard. From the existing performance, I knew it wouldn't work. Had I rolled the DC up to the table saw and put in blast gates, it would have been doable. Now, I guess it's best if I just leave them all open. Of course, now I need to break down my existing table saw cabinet which I made since I'll be getting the new cabinet saw tomorrow. I'll need to design a new dust collection setup for both saws, the router, and the spindle sander, all in one cast iron top. :-)
brian
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You did not say which unit you ended up with but you could use this cyclone:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cyclone-Separator-for-Dust-Collector_W0QQitemZ280069380307QQihZ018QQcategoryZ11704QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
brianlanning wrote:

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Pat Barber wrote:

>http://cgi.ebay.com/Cyclone-Separator-for-Dust-Collector_W0QQitemZ280069380307QQihZ018QQcategoryZ11704QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It's a delta 50-765. I'm shopping for something exactly like that one. I'd prefer a model with some flex hose at the bottom so the lid can come off the trashcan without having to lift the entire thing. I guess I could put it in there myself.
I found this:
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com /
The kids would love this too because you can see the swirling dust inside the cyclone. Their prices seem a bit high. Maybe they can make me a deal.
brian
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I thought about buying the DC, but decided I really wanted a cyclone. But I checked with Wynn, and they say their filter kit fits perfectly.
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