Dust collection piping sticker shock

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wrote

Applying a finish? Spraying a finish?
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Yes, but the topic was dust collection. I would not advise using a dust collection system to deal with fumes from finishing. Instead, an exhaust fan system that is separate from dust collection would seem to be in order. A dust collection system will just reticulate the fumes.
If you are doing wood machining and finishing operations at the same time, you should have separate work areas.
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I see several mentions of fumes here with regard to the dust collection system. It has been my understanding that the hazard is related to dust, not fumes. This is more similar to the grain dust explosion that can occur in grain elevators - but on a smaller scale.
BTW - Woodsmith magazine ran an article, in this months issue, regarding small shop dust collection and duct options. They discuss metal, flex and PVC as options and PVC was presented as a viable option. They state that "Studies suggest this (static explosion) is highly unlikely to happen with dust collectors in a home shop." However, to alleviate fears (and probably make their lawyer happy) they briefly discuss grounding using copper wire,
RonB
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In an ideal setup you may have a different finishing environment. If you use gel stains and varnishes dust can be wiped off the surface that was varnished 10 minutes prior.
Regardless accidents happen when you least expect them to happen. If you are using a product that produces flammable fumes, many contact cements fall into this category, and then you for some reason turn the collector on....
It really does not matter what you are sucking up if you have a static build up and get that spark wood is not the only thing to worry about.
Having said that the DC is not the only thing in the shop than can produce this type spark either.
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wrote:

I don't do spray finishes, but any finish I do use is pretty much done outdoors... My dust management in the shop isn't THAT good ;-]
mac
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"Leon" wrote

Which DC did you buy?
Do I understand that the DC is stationary and you just move the hoses?
How long does that take each time?
How noisy is that to have the DC so close?
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On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:22:22 -0400, "Lee Michaels"

Not sure if "close counts" here.. He said the DC hose was 20 feet long.. My system has the DC in the corner of the shop, with runs to the lathe and bandsaw.. Since my shop is 18 x 22', I'm guessing that I'm closer to the DC than Leon is.. I do use a "muffler" from PSI, which is a big improvement...
mac
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The Jet with the large canister filter and remote control.

It is on rollers however I stay in place unless I need to change out the bag.

To change hoses, about 10 seconds max to disconnect from one tool and carry to the next. I use the cone shaped quick disconnects, they are friction fit.

Quieter than any tool that it is attached to. I will actually leave it running a few minutes at a time between cuts on the TS. I will say that when connected to and running with the planer, the planer becomes noticeably louder. I am not too sure about every dust collector but most are many times less loud than the typical shop vac.

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Leon wrote:

Not the case with my 2HP Grizzly cyclone. That thing ROARS. What you said about the planer is true for me though; sucking air through the planer makes it a LOT louder than running it by itself.
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*snip*

I'd love to see a little more consistency in tool loudness ratings. Some would tell you how loud they were (at 3'), but most others would not. When your only method to choose is the box and return policy, more information is a great thing.
Before I turn on the shop vac, the first thing I do is put on hearing protection. I hate hearing that thing run! (A quiet one's in my future, but considering I just bought a cyclone it'll be a little while.)
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"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message

A demo in the store would be nice. I did that with all of the compressors I looked at when I bought my last one.

There are a few shop type vacs that do not require hearing protection, the Fein and Festool to name a couple. I have the Festool and it is completrly drown out by the sound of my sanders, Domino, or hand drill when they are be used at the same time. The big problem with both of those vacs is that they both pretty much cost the same amount as a decent DC.
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On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:46:02 -0700 (PDT), SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I used PVC sewer & drain pipe, 6-inch for the run up to the ceiling from the DC (a Jet DC-1200CK) and for the horizontals along the ceiling. 4-inch for the drops. Cast aluminum blast gates (the gate itself is steel) mounted using plastic electrical tape as a gasket (the ID of the pipe is a tad larger than the OD of the blast gate flange) and pop rivets to hold them in, about a foot off the floor. PVC flex pipe from there to the machine (no more than a few feet). No ground. No issues. In use for about 3 years now.
The S&D pipe is a thin-wall (lighter than SCH40) with bell ends so no coupling is needed to join straight runs. I found it very easy to work with.
Since I was gluing up plastic pipe, I included a few clean-outs. I figured they would come in handy if for some reason I had a jam. I just used a Y fitting instead of an elbow in a couple of places, and I put a threaded cap fitting on the open port of the fitting. I have to say that I've never had the occasion to use them, so maybe they were not really necessary.
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*snip*

Murphy's law says if you didn't have them then a piece would have gotten stuck the first time you used it. ;-)
The way I see it, cleanouts could also be used for additional drops. Just put several of them on the main line, and when you need another drop take the cap off and connect your pipe.
Puckdropper
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On 28 Mar 2009 07:30:18 GMT, Puckdropper wrote:

Indeed.
Murphy's Law also states that, having put cleanouts in for later addition of drops, no such drops would ever be needed.
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Oh, they'll be needed alright. They just have to take too sharp of a bend to get to the Y that was almost conveniently located.
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Art Greenberg wrote:

Seems that if you use a larger pipe for the horizontal runs the air flow is going to slow down and drop a lot of it's load of sawdust. I used the same type of pipe and glued only every other joint. The others I sealed with duct tape. When I had the wire inside it would snag stuff and start a blockage. Got rid of the wire and no more problems.
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Gerald Ross
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On Sat, 28 Mar 2009 09:20:27 -0400, Gerald Ross wrote:

With my DC, that has never been a problem.
But the relationship between pipe diameter and air velocity is precisely why I used 4 inch pipe for the drops.

Thats a great idea. You just have to make sure you have enough space and slack int he installation to permit separating the pipe.

No "ground" wire in my setup.
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DO YOU HAVE A DEATH WISH?!
I know a guy, who knows a guy, who heard of a guy that built his home DC system with PVC. He ripped every piece in half and foiled taped the outside and the inside of every pipe, used gold-plated copper bolts to connect the in*out layers of foil. He then pounded 8' copper grounding rods every two feet and connected them to the piping. Even after all of this he brushed up against the piping with his flannel shirt and produced a static explosion that killed hundreds!
Seriously, I would only have one concern. A static shock could startle you and cause some part of your body to come in contact with some part of a moving tool.
I recently bought some galvanized HVAC ductwork for my house and it was surprisingly cheap. A 6" round duct 5' long was as cheap at the supply house as the 4" metal dryer ducts are at the Borg. I don't know the guage of it but it seems that it could withstand the suction of a DC. They had long sweep 90s, Wyes, 45s, and numerous other fittings. Defintely worth a trip to your local supply house to see what is available.
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Second that. When we were building our house I installed the dryer vent and some other short runs of venting not related to HVAC. The vent, exterior fitting and a few clamps came up to about $25-30. You can also get the elbows that will adjust from 90 to 45 degrees. Got me thinking about future dust use.
RonB
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On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 13:46:02 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"

Use Sched 40 PVC, no ground needed. PVC is easy to work, seals well, cheap, available and low turbulance.
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