Dovetail Jigs

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Not sure I'm advocating that so much as advocating for sending the message that this kind of approach to sales is so far out of the mainstream that buyers should stay away in droves. i.e., don't patronize the businesses that take this kind of Draconian approach to their sales. There *are* other jigs out there that will do what the OP is requesting without his having to waive all of his rights by the mere act of opening a package. Bottom line, the more people who don't do business with this kind of entity, the less likely others are going to be to follow down this path. Simply ignoring the EULA still produces a sale for the jig maker, violating the EULA provides a possible additional revenue stream for the jig maker, not using or buying the jig denies both revenue streams.
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

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Mark:
Have to agree with you. Having written many software agreements like this, I find this one to be crap when it restricts your ability to build for someone else within your shop. I am not talking about giving things away to other people and breaking a reasonable agreement btw... I find this one too restrictive and hence unreasonable. Why break an agreement when you can buy something else just as good? To me this would be a product of last resort due to the agreement.
-- Will R. Jewel Boxes and Wood Art http://woodwork.pmccl.com The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. George Bernard Shaw
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Mark & Juanita (in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com) said:
|
|| one would like to make that comment and treat EULA's as something ||| ot be ignored, there is certainly the chance (as in the current ||| music downloading pogrom) that someone may decide to attempt to ||| enforce those EULA's and make an example of someone they believe ||| to be infringing said EULA. Thus far, there is little precedent ||| regarding the legality of some of these EULA's, but one doesn't ||| want to have to be the guinea pig defending oneself against some ||| jack-booted thugs from some enforcement organization if it can be ||| avoided. ||| || You're are the last one I expected to advocate the "lube it up and || bend over" approach. | | Not sure I'm advocating that so much as advocating for sending the | message that this kind of approach to sales is so far out of the | mainstream that buyers should stay away in droves. i.e., don't | patronize the businesses that take this kind of Draconian approach | to their sales. There *are* other jigs out there that will do what | the OP is requesting without his having to waive all of his rights | by the mere act of opening a package. Bottom line, the more people | who don't do business with this kind of entity, the less likely | others are going to be to follow down this path. Simply ignoring | the EULA still produces a sale for the jig maker, violating the | EULA provides a possible additional revenue stream for the jig | maker, not using or buying the jig denies both revenue streams.
The agreement stuck in my craw, too. On the other hand, there's nothing to stop anyone from designing their own jig template - and if there's anyone who'd care to do so and send me a DXF, I'd be pleased to produce and distribute it inexpensively (with _no_ license agreement)...
Any takers?
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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Morris Dovey (in aXBpf.13$ snipped-for-privacy@news.uswest.net) said:
| ...there's nothing to stop anyone from designing their own jig template.
And today I used my shop-built jig to produce my first half blind dovetails. Photo of the result on news:alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking under "Half Blind".
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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wrote:

Do you have a picture of the jig? Did I misread that you used the jig to handcut the dovetails?
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Mark & Juanita (in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com) said:
| On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:39:25 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
| || Morris Dovey (in aXBpf.13$ snipped-for-privacy@news.uswest.net) said: || ||| ...there's nothing to stop anyone from designing their own jig ||| template. || || And today I used my shop-built jig to produce my first half blind || dovetails. Photo of the result on || news:alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking under "Half Blind". | | Do you have a picture of the jig? Did I misread that you used the | jig to handcut the dovetails?
Yes, I do - and yes, you did. :-)
There're photos of the jig at the link below. The "template" is a pair of part programs (one for tails and one for pins) that take angle, height, width, displacement of each tail from the edge of the board, bit diameter, and depth of cut as parameters to produce common, half-blind, and non-mitered full-blind dovetail joints using only a straight bit.
For the dovetails in the picture I used a 1/8" 3-flute center-cutting end mill (because I didn't have a suitable router bit) at 16K RPM and fed at 90"/min. If I'd used a smaller bit (say, 1/32") both the inside and outside corners would have appeared "sharp" instead of "rounded".
I absolutely guarantee that I totally lack the skills to cut that joint by hand to produce an exact fit - and I have nothing but admiration for people with that kind of skill (and eyesight!)
Fortunately, it's sometimes possible to substitute one skill for another...
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/cnc_joinery.html
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wrote:

Thanks for the clarification [of my poor reading skills :-) ] and also for the link to the pictures
... snip
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Bell Sympatico randomly decided to omit your work this time from the newsgroup. Can I talk you into e-mailing a snap to me? Just lose the BULL from my addy.
Thankeee, Morris.
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Robatoy (in snipped-for-privacy@news.bellglobal.com) said:
| Bell Sympatico randomly decided to omit your work this time from | the newsgroup. Can I talk you into e-mailing a snap to me? Just | lose the BULL from my addy.
You have mail!
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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Indeed. Thank you.
(I am still working on the servo vs stepper debate <G>)
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How many people are going to read the thing? How many are going to care? Advocating not buying the thing just puts you in a position of not buying much as more and more companies THINK that they can run your life and dictate law. I can just see the end result of all this, some company will start sending junk mail stating " buy removing this ad from your mailbox, you agree to turn over your house to our company at our discretion". This could go further. Printed on the back of your birth certificate: "By the act of being born, you agree to work for our company for a period of forty years from your eighteenth birthday. You also agree that terms and conditions of this employment are left completely up to the company".

mainstream
There
package.
violating
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On 12/18/2005 2:08 PM Mark & Juanita mumbled something about the following:

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For those of us doing woodworking as a hobby, it's not that much of an issue. Any production shop would probably have some specialty dovetail making machine that is more precise and quicker than even a Leigh or any other "Professional" jigs.
It's not asking you to destroy anything you built using the templates, only the templates themselves.
If you terminate your word or excel agreement, you cannot use the templates to create new documents. The documents/drawers/cabinets/etc. are the end product, the templates are intermediary.
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... snip

Ah, that's why I deliberately chose the Word, Powerpoint or Excel *templates* for my analogy. I most certainly can use those templates in other software capable of reading Word, Powerpoint, or Excel such as OpenOffice, or some of the other less popular commercial packages such as IBM's Lotus suite or Borland's suite to create other new documents based upon those formats and templates. This *would* be analagous to the templates made with the Stot's jig.
I understand that Stot's line of reasoning is that one can use the Stot's jig to reproduce the Stot's jig, thus the draconian approach to attempting to license rather than sell a tool was taken in order to prevent this from happening. The problem is that this tramples the "right of first sale" doctrine common with commercial transactions. In the extreme, one could extend the Stot's approach to absurdity, such as licensing metal-working lathes since one can use a metalworking lathe to produce a metal-working lathe.
I don't know what the proper approach for protecting Stot's intellectual property is, other than pricing the jig such that copying it would be economically silly. I certainly don't believe that trying to apply software licensing methodology to physical items is the right way to go.
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On 12/18/2005 9:13 PM Mark & Juanita mumbled something about the following:

So, what other jig making template exists that you can use a Stot's jig with? There is no comparison.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???
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LOML has bought me a Porter Cable 4212 for Christmas. I'll let you know after Christmas how I like it. I can't wait.
Dick Durbin
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Jimmy wrote:

I have a Sears (yes, I know, shame on me) "Professional" jig that does half blind and through dovetails and, with an additional template, two sizes of box joints. Both together were less than $100 several years ago.
NOTE: The first thing you should do is make a copy of all the templates with a pattern following router setup. DAMHIKT :-).
--
It's turtles, all the way down

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http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?eT7&pX39
Porter Cable makes some mighty fine tools including this one. "About" $140 on various sites.
Jimmy wrote:

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Pat Barber wrote:

Pat, Have you used this jig. I am getting one for Christmas.
Dick Durbin
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I've beed considering the 4212, too -- since my favorite, the Akeda is just too expensive. Pat, if you've used it, can you tell me how I might do dust collection for it?
Pat Barber wrote:

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Not much in the wau of DC for these jigs. I would suggest a router "with" DC which does a pretty fair job.
Look at the PC 8529... that has a built-in dc at the base. That does a "fair" job but does not get it all...
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