Dovetail Jigs

[Jimmy]

I want to purchase a good dovetail jig but don't want to break the bank. Any suggestions and recommendations about sizes, etc. needed.

[Leon]

Good ones can be had for less than $100. Now if you want good and veritable you may have to spend 3 to $400. Typically the common cheaper ones will do a good job however they are only designed to do Blind Dove Tails. IMHO these are harder to do than Through Dove Tails as the router bit setting has to be perfectly set in depth. This is true on cheap and expensive traditional stile DT jigs.

Other than that, Leigh and PC make the better multi purpose jigs.

[Jimmy]

Thanks for the advice.

[Larry Jaques]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 11:27:00 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Jimmy" quickly quoth:

"Dovetail a Drawer" by Frank Klausz. DVD or VHS, $19.95 retail, available from $13 and change if you look around.

There's one for $0.99 (with reserve) on eBay right now.

has them for $18.95 + $2.95 s/h reseller has one for $17.74 + $3.49 s/h

Learn to dovetail by hand and you'll never need a jig.

[Odinn]

On 12/18/2005 6:27 AM Jimmy mumbled something about the following:

Stot's Template Master - make your own jigs of any size - $40

[WillR]

Have to agree with you. Saved myself over $400 -- had to buy a dovetail=20 saw and the templates from lee valley though...

All the dovetail stuff...

el cheapo stuff -- which works fine.

About $30 and you are in business...

?c=3D2&p=3D41718&cat=3D1,42884I already had the chisels...

It takes less practice than with the router. And I have been able to get =

many dovetails with almost invisible seams.

And any day real soon I will be able to use my shop for something more=20 than base molding and window trim. sigh!

--=20 Will R. Jewel Boxes and Wood Art

power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those=20 who have not got it.=94 George Bernard Shaw

[Olebiker]

LOML has bought me a Porter Cable 4212 for Christmas. I'll let you know after Christmas how I like it. I can't wait.

Dick Durbin

[Larry Blanchard]

I have a Sears (yes, I know, shame on me) "Professional" jig that does half blind and through dovetails and, with an additional template, two sizes of box joints. Both together were less than $100 several years ago.

NOTE: The first thing you should do is make a copy of all the templates with a pattern following router setup. DAMHIKT :-).

[Mark & Juanita]

supports the idea that EULA's can be extended beyond the software domain to the physical domain as well. Take a look a the "user agreement" link on that web page. Among the various things in that agreement (from the web page, posted for critical comment):

"Removing the seal from the product indicates your agreement to be bound by the terms of the agreement. ("Agreement") printed in the User?s Manual. If you do not agree with the "Agreement", do not remove product seal and promptly return, this tool, package and the other items (written materials and containers) to Stots Corporation for a full refund."

Not having seen how the product is shipped, one would hope that the User manual is packaged separately so you can see to what you are agreeing before opening the package. Actually, reading below, this may not be the case since they want the User Manual destroyed if you decide to terminate the user agreeement.

More importantly:

" You may not: a. allow individuals that did not purchase the original Product use the Product or any templates produced using the Product or Process described (without specific written permission from the Stots Corporation)"

In other words, if your Father-in-law, son-in-law, or anybody else comes over to your shop, you are breaking the license agreement if they happen to use your jig or any of the jigs you create using the original jig.

"You may: a. use the Product (or any of the working templates produced using the Product or Process) in only one shop by the original purchaser only; b. make one (1) copy of the instructions for backup purposes, provided that you reproduce all proprietary notices on the copy; and c. use the Process described in the instruction book (multiple US patents pending) only with the original Product provided with the instruction book."

So, if you are a small shop and have several employees, only one of those employees are allowed by this license to use this jig. Not sure how this would be interpreted if you were to try to take this jig or any of the working templates produced with the jig (guess non-working templates are OK) to multiple job sites rather than only using them in your shop.

Of course in typical EULA-ese style, all of the obligations are placed upon the purchaser while the seller disavows any responsibility for anything, anywhere, anytime beyond what you pay for the jig:

"IN NO EVENT SHALL STOTS BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, COLLATERAL, EXEMPLARY, CONSEQUENTIAL OR SPECIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES ARISING OUT OF YOUR PURCHASE AND USE OF THE PRODUCT OR OUT OF THE WARRANTY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATIONS LOSS OF USE, PROFITS, GOODWILL OR SAVINGS, OR LOSS OF WOOD CUT BY THE USER"

... and of course how you can terminate the license: " GENERAL?You may terminate this licensee at any time by destroying the Product; templates produced using the Process, and all copies of the instruction book or by sending them to Stots. Stots may terminate this license if you fail to comply with the terms and conditions of the License Agreement. Upon such termination, you agree to destroy or return the Product; templates produced using the Process, and all copies of the instruction book or by returning them to Stots. "

Actually, upon looking at the above statement, this is even worse than a standard software license. At least if I decided to terminate my Word, Powerpoint, or Excel license, I would not be expected to delete any Word, Powerpoint, or Excel document templates that designed using the licensed software. Or for other software, I wouldn't be expected to delete any of the files created by that other software. Further, I wouldn't be required to destroy the software manuals because I had stopped using the software.

If you are comfortable with helping support the idea that products should be licensed rather than purchased, then by all means have at it.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[CW]

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[Odinn]

On 12/18/2005 2:08 PM Mark & Juanita mumbled something about the followin= g:

e:

For those of us doing woodworking as a hobby, it's not that much of an=20 issue. Any production shop would probably have some specialty dovetail=20 making machine that is more precise and quicker than even a Leigh or any =

other "Professional" jigs.

It's not asking you to destroy anything you built using the templates,=20 only the templates themselves.

If you terminate your word or excel agreement, you cannot use the=20 templates to create new documents. The documents/drawers/cabinets/etc.=20 are the end product, the templates are intermediary.

--=20 Odinn RCOS #7 SENS BS ???

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ...

'03 FLHTI ........... '97 VN1500D ......... Biker Net ... Riders Assoc . [e-mail] to reply

[Lobby Dosser]

If you do them Frank's way, you don't need the templates. See October Popular Woodworking.

[CW]

At what point in this thread did the OP ask advise on hand cutting dovetails?

[Mark & Juanita]

... snip

While one would like to make that comment and treat EULA's as something ot be ignored, there is certainly the chance (as in the current music downloading pogrom) that someone may decide to attempt to enforce those EULA's and make an example of someone they believe to be infringing said EULA. Thus far, there is little precedent regarding the legality of some of these EULA's, but one doesn't want to have to be the guinea pig defending oneself against some jack-booted thugs from some enforcement organization if it can be avoided.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[Mark & Juanita]

... snip

Ah, that's why I deliberately chose the Word, Powerpoint or Excel

*templates* for my analogy. I most certainly can use those templates in other software capable of reading Word, Powerpoint, or Excel such as OpenOffice, or some of the other less popular commercial packages such as IBM's Lotus suite or Borland's suite to create other new documents based upon those formats and templates. This *would* be analagous to the templates made with the Stot's jig.

I understand that Stot's line of reasoning is that one can use the Stot's jig to reproduce the Stot's jig, thus the draconian approach to attempting to license rather than sell a tool was taken in order to prevent this from happening. The problem is that this tramples the "right of first sale" doctrine common with commercial transactions. In the extreme, one could extend the Stot's approach to absurdity, such as licensing metal-working lathes since one can use a metalworking lathe to produce a metal-working lathe.

I don't know what the proper approach for protecting Stot's intellectual property is, other than pricing the jig such that copying it would be economically silly. I certainly don't believe that trying to apply software licensing methodology to physical items is the right way to go.

+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[Odinn]

So, what other jig making template exists that you can use a Stot's jig with? There is no comparison.

[CW]

You're are the last one I expected to advocate the "lube it up and bend over" approach.

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[Mark & Juanita]

Not sure I'm advocating that so much as advocating for sending the message that this kind of approach to sales is so far out of the mainstream that buyers should stay away in droves. i.e., don't patronize the businesses that take this kind of Draconian approach to their sales. There

*are* other jigs out there that will do what the OP is requesting without his having to waive all of his rights by the mere act of opening a package. Bottom line, the more people who don't do business with this kind of entity, the less likely others are going to be to follow down this path. Simply ignoring the EULA still produces a sale for the jig maker, violating the EULA provides a possible additional revenue stream for the jig maker, not using or buying the jig denies both revenue streams. +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

[Lobby Dosser]

He didn't. It branched immediately.

[CW]