Dip in Table Saw--Should I send it back?

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It wouldn't hurt to mention you have a few thousand friends on rec woodworking anxiously waiting to see how Grizzly handles this potentially unsafe situation.
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It wouldn't help much either if past experience is any guide.
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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A little followup/clarification:
On the specs/tolerances, there was apparently some misunderstanding prior to my purchase. I had actually called Grizz before ordering the ts and was told that their tolerances were .006 per foot. To me, this means that over any 12 inch section there will not be a discrepancy greater than .006. To them, as best as I can understand from their phone tech, it means that over a 2.5 foot table, they accept variances of up to .015 at any point across the table surface. Therefore they viewed the .012 dip as within tolerances whereas I viewed it as exceeding tolerances.
As for exchanges/returns, their email support was more forgiving than the phone support and after several emails, they have offered to exchange the table top. I have to haul the old one to UPS and they will reimburse shipping expenses if they agree with my measurements, so a bit of work for me but not too bad.
Finally, my previous experience with Grizz had been pretty good. They took back a bandsaw I bought about 4 years ago without complaint after I couldn't get the blade to track so I was comfortable with their customer service. And I'm very happy with a drill press I picked up from them several months ago.
Thanks for all the responses. Rec.ww has been a great resource for me.
snipped-for-privacy@netscape.net (Caveman Lawyer) wrote in message

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You are "comfortable with their service". That's great! But how comfortable are you with their products??
dave
Caveman Lawyer wrote:
snip

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Probably more comfortable than the people who have spent significantly more money on a different name brand with the same tolerances and are trying to justify doing so in their minds.
Brian.
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I "justify" all my purchases BEFORE plonking my money down. If I find that I was duped by hype, then it goes back for a refund. I haven't can't think of a single item I've got that I "justify" in my mind for comfort's sake.
dave
Brian wrote:

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I believe this thread has gone to a level far beyond what is practical .. .. .. I have had a 1023 Grizz for about 9 years now and I don't have a clue to this day exactly how flat it is. I also don't believe it much matters by the time I drop on my homemade plywood panel cutting sled or my homemade mdf tennoning jig, etc.
I wonder how many of you are using plywood & mdf jigs on your "perfect" saws and have no idea what the TRUE level of perfection is that you are dealing with ?? ?? ??
If .015" is within spec. for a number of respected manufacturers, why all the fuss ?? ?? ??
If there's a gradual "dip" that in no way affects performance, who cares ?? ?? ?? If, on the other hand there is a visible or detectable "ridge" which interferes with your use of the tool, by all means return it. Keep in mind that IF your degree of accuracy in making the measurements is incorrect or inadequate, YOU will be responsible for the shipping & handling of the returned pieces, BOTH WAYS !! !! !!
They are a generally a great company to do business with, but they cannot and I assure you they WILL NOT absorb costs associated with frivolous complaints. Now before I get flamed for that statement, I am in no way calling your complaint frivolous .. .. .. but if they measure it and find you to be wrong .. .. .. THEY CERTAINLY WILL !! !! !!
None of us can see, measure, feel, or appraise the effects of your described defect, therefore no one can give absolutely perfect advice .. .. the decision must be yours and yours alone. Good luck with whichever route you choose based on your own instincts and the advice & opinions you've received here. Just please bear in mind, IF YOU ARE WRONG .. .. .. it will be somewhat costly on your part.
Again .. best of luck .. .. ..
Caveman Lawyer wrote:

<<<__ Bob __>>>
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Caveman Lawyer wrote:

From their site:
Solid cast iron table is first heat treated to remove warpage, then milled perfectly flat and ground to a mirror-like finish
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?ItemNumber=G1023S
12 thousandths isn't perfectly flat.

Flex cast iron? Yeah, it's doable. A bottle jack, some chain, a few pieces of wood. Not that you need that much force but you would need that much control. And unless you glued it together with Loc-Tite (and letting it cure for a day with the chains in place) I wouldn't count on it staying. I'm not familiar with the webbing under either the Griz table or extensions so when pressure was released I don't know which would dominate.

This is where I scratch my head, the wings run parallel to the blade and the dip is 1/80th of an inch. If the gap were perpendicular to movement I could see it, or maybe your bearing down and gouging the wood??
Lastly I would like to know your method of measurement and your tooling. I don't know many people willing to cough up the $80 or so for a 2' Starrett steel rule, or even the $60 or so for a good combination square. I'm one of these jerks who pay forty something dollars retail for a forged steel square head.
--
Mark

N.E. Ohio
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Perfect doesn't exist and shouldn't be used as a descriptor, but even so it is about as perfect as any of them. Powermatic claims to be 2 thousandths flatter, while Delta's tolerances could land you a Unisaw 3 thousandths worse.
I have a G1023S arriving today in about 3 hours. I'll take the time to see where it comes in.
Brian.
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snipped-for-privacy@netscape.net (Caveman Lawyer) wrote in message

This is not too terribly unexpected. People will say "you should have bought a XYZ instead." Baloney. Even Powermatic only guarantees .01" flatness. So you'd be 0.002" better off for $1200 extra. Hmmmph. And if you were to complain to Powermatic about a 0.01" dip, they'll tell you to flatten out yourself with a hammer. Seriously.
Now, I was curious about the Unisaws too (could this be a legit reason to spend the extra money on one), before I recently decided to take the plunge and purchase a G1023. So at the local junior college, I measured two Unisaws and found them to be within 0.010" and 0.011". Better than what Grizzly guarantees, but not appreciably better than your 0.012".
I think your issue is the wing alignment problem. Your dip, while within spec, is causing it. So I'd approach it from that angle with Grizzly rather than complaining about the 0.012" itself. When they spec "corner to corner" you make the assumption that imperfections will be gradual, and typically they are. "Corner to corner" also implies that front to rear should actually be LESS than 0.015" also. But in your case, however, there is a blunt imperfection and the end result is the alignment problem. I'd be very surprised if they were unwilling to address that for you, based on my own personal experiences with their customer service and most other people's as well.
Let us know what happens.
Brian.
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Here is an article you should read that deals with flattening a new Delta Unisaw table.
http://www.puzzlecraft.com/Projects/HTMAP/07saw.htm
Brian.
snipped-for-privacy@netscape.net (Caveman Lawyer) wrote in message

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Brian wrote:

Gee, I thought it was going to be about rubbing three tabletops together until each was as flat as you wanted. <g>
-- Mark
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<...previous quote snipped...>
OH NO WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!
Besides isn't that a contractor saw?
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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Heh. Same procedure you would use on a cabinet saw. Notice, if you read, that he makes reference the Delta Unisaw tolerances as a motivation for performing the procedure.
Brian.
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