Dimensional lumber load carrying ability

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Tom Watson wrote:

...
...
I certainly added beyond the simple deflection calculation that he wasn't looking at anywhere near the whole picture...
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On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:00:52 -0500, Duane Bozarth

You and Clarke were jerking each other off about deflection when the primary problem was related to the perimeter loading.
This is the same kind of crap that goes on in the endless 'lecktricity threads.
The only reason that the real engineers, who lurk on this newsgroup, don't respond and smack your head, is that they would be giving professional advice in a situation where they might be liable but could never profit.
The OP has a situation that could result in damage to the structure and injury to the occupants if things go wrong.
You and Clarke should sit down and have a nice cup of "shut the fuck up" when the situation is such that it could result in harm to another person.
I don't have a problem with you generally, Bozarth, but in this situation you could get someone hurt.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
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Tom Watson wrote:
...a diatribe...
I also told him connection and support was an issue...if you didn't think it was strong enough, sorry...
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Duane Bozarth wrote:

I didn't respond with any "math". I was simply explaining how to use the sagulator.
--
--John
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Tom Watson wrote:

Now THAT's funny!
-Phil Crow
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I didn't want to address this in the previous post because I was trying to be polite.
Upon further reflection and given the potential ramifications of misunderstanding, I thought it best to inform you that 1.5 x 1.5 x 8 18.
If you are making these kind of mistakes, for gawd's sake don't do your own engineering.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
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True, but irrelevant: he said (1.5 + 1.5) x 8 = 24, which it does.

Ahem....
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 01:34:07 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Douglas:
Did I have to make the obvious point that the calculation was without merit?
What the hell does 1.5 + 1.5 have to do with anything?
The thrust of the inquiry was geared towards determining the load on a specific area, which would be calculated by L X W.
Have you become so reflexive in your posting that you ignore the fundamentals of the argument?
BTW - that was a rhetorical question.
Ahem...
Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
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I don't know whether it had merit or not; didn't see what led up to it. But it was calculated correctly.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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IFIRC: The US Department of Agriculture has all sorts of preengineered plans for things like the tank and stand/tower you are trying to build online, hosted by the Extension Services, at various Universities. Try a google search, or just call your extension agent and see if they can help you.
Note 2, I haven't run the calcs, (and won't, I am a licensed engineer and don't want to risk the liability), but the 2X12 perimeter is probably undersized for the loads.
You might want to discuss your project with a Professional Engineer, the cost shouldn't be too high (it is a pretty simple problem and shouldn't involve too much of their time). Depending on where you are building the tank, the Building Department will require sealed drawings before they will give you a permit.
j walker wrote:

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I am beginning to wish I hadn't asked the original question. Somebody out there needs to quit reading between the lines and assuming what they don't know.
I gave a brief view of the project simply because I thought perhaps I had confused someone attempting to help.
Looking back I should have merely ignored that and left well enough alone
OR
given a detailed word picture of the platform as it has existed for several years, complete with the 3 X 4 angle braces on all sides but one and that one being reinforced with a 4X4X3/8 el piece of steel. I probably should have mentioned that the 1100 gallon capacity will only rarely be reached and only by manual override and that normally the limit is 800 gallons at which time the water flows out the overflow pipe. And finally it stands alone on the farm, filled by a windmill and should a catastrophe occur it isn't likely to hurt anyone. And just in case someone worries about the tank sinking in the ground please be advised that it sits proudly on 8 inches of 4000 psi concrete and the soil under the concrete was properly prepared.
I am a farmer not an engineer but I am not an idiot about how to build something and have it stand up for a while.
Thanks to those who were helpful.

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j walker wrote:

Famous last words. Remember Murphy's Law. If it _can_ fail, the day it _does_ the family of the meanest trial lawyer in the country will be standing under it.

--
--John
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4ax.com:
<snip>

Farmers who _are_ idiots tend not to survive all that long. Tough life, even when you know what you are doing.
Thank you. Success in your work!
Patriarch
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wrote:

Well, when the details are missing, some assumptions are likely going to have to be made to develop a reasonably-complete answer.

That probably would have been helpful

Well, you're talking about a non-trivial amount of load and not everybody (even farmers) is prepared to take the amount of static loads, dynamic loads, shear stresses, beam deflections, etc into account when designing a structure. Since your original question, which dealt with deflection of a beam, involves (relatively) elementary structural analysis, someone in the know about engineering of a structure is likely to assume the worst which is that you have little to no knowledge in the area.
Good luck with whatever you end up with.
todd
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j walker wrote:

...
Well, you see what frequently (usually?) happens on usenet... :)
What fun would it be if there weren't anybody around guessing? But, it <is> a two-way street--the info one gets usually can only be as good as the info regarding the question supplied. W/ a general description, the imagination of respondents is unfettered, and as you note, there are some who will attempt to make the most dire prediction they can imagine.
If you happen back by one more time, where are you farming and what type?
I'm in SW KS on dryland wheat/milo raising feeder calves over the winter for the feedlots...and wishing we'd get some of the rain that's been scattered around but missed us (but don't need the 2" diam hail that covered the ground in N central part of the state last night)
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On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:12:13 -0500, Duane Bozarth

We have a small cow-calf operation down in AL and we could probably spare some rain for you. We are approaching 6 days without rain. It was in January the last time that happened. The pasture is beginning to dry out and the grass toughen up some which the cows will like better. I am still feeding some hay and usually we are finished by March 10.
Sold some calves last week and prices are still good so I certainly can't complain. Slaughter cows are higher than we have ever seen.
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I've got a water tower on my property that stands off by itself and I'm thinking of putting an 1100 gallon tank on it.
It has a foundation rated at 4000 psi (which is stronger than the mix for any road in my state) and all loads bear directly. I haven't the slightest idea of the framing sizes or how they align with the load.
I'm wondering if 2 x 8 joists will hold the load without there being a problem with deflection.
The 2 x 8 's will bear on steel angle braces that are set who knows how many inches apart, by god knows what kind of fasteners, but these are fastened to 2 x 12 rim joists.
BTW - I have no idea how the holding tank engages the framing at the footprint. It might be perimeter loaded or it might hit at eight points distributed in some way that is not privy to me.
Thank you so much for helping me out with this.
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Here's a span calculator for joists and rafters that ought to do what you need: <http://www.awc.org/calculators/span/calc/timbercalcstyle.asp

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On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 18:46:01 -0400, Roger

Now, by Gosh, that' funny.
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