did a stupid thing again...

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"mac davis" wrote in message

There is only one correct definition of each term: Crosscutting is cutting across the grain, ripping is cutting with the grain.
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so, do I have to delaminate my plywood before cutting it?
ahh.. buy bending plywood and all the grain runs the same direction..
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"mac davis" wrote in message
"Swingman" wrote:

Mark asked the question twice: " ... what constitutes "crosscut" on a piece of plywood?", but was ignored by all.
I believe that the point Mark was getting at is that the question is not whether it is a "crosscut" or a "rip", but safety with regard to the orientation on the saw of a board that is longer than it is wide, whether it be sheet stock or wood.
In the case of the OP, if what he said was true about the final dimension (16" x 16"), and the size of the "cutoff" (2"), then whether it was a crosscut or rip is likely moot with regard to the safety of the operation that caused the particular incident, and therefore the incident was more likely caused by technique, or lack thereof.
IOW, cutting 2" off 16" x 18" a piece of sheet good with the 16" side against the fence is not an inherently unsafe thing to do for someone experienced with a table saw.
That said, everyone has their comfort level on various table saw cuts, so that might not hold true for someone who feels that type of cut is unsafe for them.
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I have no issue with this statement with respect to the type or configuration of the blade used to make the cut - rip sharpened for cuts parallel to the grain and crosscut sharpened for cuts across the grain. But, with respect to the technique used to make the cut using a tablesaw, I'm more comfortable with "crosscut" = cutting across the shorter dimension and "ripping" = cutting along the longer dimension of the piece.
With that said, I confess that I don't remember ever consciously thinking "Now this is a (rip)(cross) cut, so I should (....)" I just look at what I'm trying to do and do it whatever way keeps my anatomy as far as possible any spinning iron.
Sorry if this is off-point with the OP. Swingman's post was the first I saw in this "sub-thread".
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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"Tom Veatch" wrote in message

No argument at all ... your's is a convenient, conventional, and logical way to describe the orientation of various cuts in sheet goods, but that was not the point.
When you cut a 10" long, 12" wide solid wood board to 10" X 10" on the table saw, a newbie would be rightfully confused.
<snip>

You aparently need to read Mark's post re: plywood as the "first" post in the "subthread" ... mine was the third in context.
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wrote:

That's usually the case, but it doesn't make it safe to ignore the direction of the grain.

You might want to start... or not, if you prefer- but it sure does hurt if you get a hunk of wood spit at you because you crosscut with the fence. And I've got a chunk of maple that says it can kick back at your head even if you're standing well off to the side!

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
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Keep in mind, the ply was square *after* he cut it. if it was already 16" wide who knows how long it was. Could have been the full 8' for all we know. IMHO, cross cutting isn't defined by the size after the cut but by before.
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No, I was not using the miter gauge (I'm not THAT stupid!). Just pushing it through. And no splitter - but, I only had about a 2" cutoff, so the lack of a splitter wouldn't have caused this. Based on the postings here, I need to do a little tuneup on my saw.

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"bob" wrote in message

? Unless I misunderstand your OP, something doesn't add up with your original statement of a 16" x 16" workpiece?
The rotation of the piece into the back teeth of the blade is undoubtedly what caused your missile ... a splitter would almost certainly have prevented this with a workpiece that size, regardless of how small the "cutoff".
You state "Just pushing it through". Without being there, One can surmise that 'act' could have been the root of the problem.
Maintaining "control" over the piece being cut, _throughout_ the cut, is as equally important, if not more so, than safety devices like "push" sticks, splitters and guards.
I've seen "push" sticks/devices get folks into trouble, particularly with ill setup equipment, because the act of 'pushing" is not necessarily the same as "controlling" the piece throughout the cut either by hand, or with a properly designed "push" device.
A properly designed push device that allows you to push, exert downward pressure on the table, and lateral pressure against the fence, all at the same time and _all the way through the cut_, along with a splitter, will almost guarantee your chances of a safe cut on a piece of that particular size.
Don't mean to preach, but the risk of sounding that way may prevent a future mishaps due to not fully understanding the causes of same.
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Bob, the key to preventing a recurrence is understanding exactly what caused your accident. It may have been a blade or fence misalignment as has been suggested. If you find that is not the case, however, there are other questions:
You didn't say which part was against the fence, the 16" workpiece or the 2" offcut. You didn't say which piece was kicked back. You didn't say whether you were pushing/guiding with both hands or one hand only.
When you say you were "crosscutting" a piece of plywood, that leads me to suspect you may have had the 16" workpiece on the left side of the blade and the 2" offcut against the fence. If you were pushing with your left hand, the workpiece may have skewed on the table as it separated from the offcut, moving it into the back teeth of the blade.

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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:43:46 GMT, "Chuck Hoffman"
again... I think he was cutting a larger piece (x is the size?) up into 16" squares?

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"mac davis" wrote in message

x = 18" if he was ending up with a 16" square and had a "2" cutoff".
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A splitter would have reduced the chance of the kickback. I dont see the need for tuneup of the TS...just learning how to use it safely would be good.
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At least your daughter had the chance to change her school project to "Rendering First Aid In The Home". And what were you doing there to begin with. It was HER school project. :)
FoggyTown
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"Mike Girouard" wrote in message

Sure thing, let HER operate the table saw ... keeps you from getting hurt.
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It probably *was* that fast, actually.
Consider: a 10" saw blade has a circumference of 31.4 inches. Spinning at, say, 3600 rpm, the tips of the teeth are moving at (31.4 / 12 * 3600 ) = 9420 feet per minute = 565,200 feet per hour = 107 mph.

Yeeeowch! Sorry to hear about that...

Bummer.
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For the record can someone cite where the proper position to stand is when doing crosscuts vs ripping. If there a difference? New to woodworking and table saw use and this sounds like a very important thing to have cleared up.
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The proper position to stand is the one that affords you the best capability to properly hold down and feed the material.
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of an 8 foot sheet of quarter inch luan. (to me, I'd call that cross cutting). I had just finished cutting some dados and didn't bother to replace the splitter. Near the end of the cut, wham!! the 2'X4' sheet sailed by me and stuck into the half inch plywood wall behind me; a very nice M&T joint right into the wall. Cause: primarily cutting with no splitter, secondarily I failed to hold down the piece.
Second time, I was "cross cutting" a piece of 3/4 plywood, cutting a 6"X6" square off a 6"X ~14" piece. Splitter and blade guard were in place, using the fence. The piece on the left side turned as I was completing the cut, a corner wedged between the blade and splitter, wham!! The block hit me about the same place as Bob, although no broken skin or torn jeans. But I did have a real nice 6"X6" bruise to explain to my wife. Cause primarily, cutting too small of a piece with the table saw, I should have used my miter saw. I since learned from the wreck that you should not cut anything smaller than the width of the blade using the fence. Secondarily, pushing material through on both sides of the blade is not a good thing to do.
My 2 cents.
Gary
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Gary wrote: [snip]

You mean the diameter of the blade? I'm trying to figure out why this rule would be a good one to follow.

If the wood had been longer than 10" this wouldn't have happened?
TIA, Josie
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