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The problem Lithium-based batteries have is that they can overheat and then literally burn up. They need some form of protection to keep them from doing so and causing fire.
Puckdropper
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Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

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On 8/21/2015 9:58 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

Right, and they need to be able to communicate through internal circuitry with the charger, that can all be handled within the battery.
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wrote:

No, the fire problem is not just during the charge cycle.
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wrote:

Oh, they *certainly* do. Most have a small microprocessor in them, as well. LiIon has a nasty habit of letting out the magic smoke (and fire). A decent appliance will have a "gas gauge" chip built into the battery to remember its charge state. It's quite difficult, to impossible, to do this in the appliance.

No, the problem is *not* just during charge. It's possible to put the protection circuits into the tool but not advised. Each cell should be monitored.
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On 8/21/2015 12:08 PM, krw wrote:

I think we are saying the same thing here. I doubt they come "with out" protection circuitry
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wrote:

Oopsie. Too many negatives. Nevermind!
The company I used to work for put the "gas gauge" in the "tool" but the battery still had overload protection. You're right. The battery supplier wouldn't have supplied the pack without at least the minimal protection.
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says...

I really wish you people would learn something about the products you are criticizing before you criticize.
DeWalt makea a line of 18v tools. For those tools they have NiCd packs and LiIon packs. The packs are interchangeable in the tools and the most recent chargers will charge either and NiMH as well.
But the packs fit tools that were not designed for lithium ion and there's a possibility that someone will try to charge one in an older charger that was not designed for lithium ion, so the packs have to have the protective circuits that are necessary to keep them from blowing somebody's ass to Hell. That adds to the cost of the packs.
The 20v tools have a differently SHAPED battery pack that is different so that nobody can put one in a tool that was not designed for lithium ion or in a charger that was not designed for lithium ion, and so the packs don't need to have the protective circuits and can thus be made and sold at significantly lower cost.
Saying "therei's no reason the packs couldn't be made interchangeable" just displays ignorance of the the fact that deWalt makes packe that ARE interchangeable.
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On 8/20/2015 10:44 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

The circuits are to protect the battery regardless, with out the circuitry the correct charger will damage the battery. It adds to the cost of "ALL" Li-Ion batteries.

Does not matter if a Li-Ion battery is used in what ever tool. It is all about the charging of Li-Ion.

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On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 23:44:08 -0400, "J. Clarke"

I really wish "you people" would reply to the right person. I didn't criticize anyone. Just stated a fact.

Where did I say differently?

OK, where did I say differently?

That doesn't change the fact that 20V LiIon batteries are the same damned thing as 18V LiIon batteries.

See. There is no reason. Thank you for supporting my assertion.
BTW, I have several DeWalt cordless tools. They *rarely* get used. With a few exceptions, they're junk.
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says...

So why do you have them?
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On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 17:49:12 -0400, "J. Clarke"

It's pretty simple, really. I didn't know what a piece of shit they were when I bought them. The circular saw isn't that bad but the rest makes up for it.
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says...

Aww, and you were doing _such_ a good job of trolling.
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On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 21:07:54 -0400, "J. Clarke"

I was about to say the same about you. But that's your MO, recently.
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On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 21:21:27 -0500, Martin Eastburn

Bull! That is just an excuse for an incompetent engineer.
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On 8/21/2015 8:16 AM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

I think the engineer is probably competent but is doing what he is told.
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wrote:

...by a lawyer. ;-)
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I think the bigger problem was the 12V size drill/drivers. 3 3.6V cells gives you 10.8V and not 12, and that would make a pretty big difference in the minds of the assuming public. It happens that 5 3.6V cells equals 18V, so there was no loss there, but the manufacturers are at least being consistent in their exaggerations.
It's horsepower and CFM all over again.
Puckdropper
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Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

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On 20 Aug 2015 15:13:29 GMT, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

But three 4V cells *is* 12V. LiIon is somewhere between 3.6V and 4V (give or take a little), depending on its charge state.

No, Crapsman HP is a damned lie.
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wrote:

My partner and I quit DeWalt cordless tools years ago account poor battery performance, primarily that they didn't seem to last more than two or three years. After which I acquired a Makita 18v kit whose batteries lasted seven or eight years. More recently one of two plumbers who did some work for me plugged his well-used DeWalt charger with battery into a nearby GFI receptacle. Some time after they left I discovered the GFI had tripped. Didn't surprise me.
Dave in SoTex
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On Thu, 20 Aug 2015 10:17:43 -0500

hope mine last that long

maybe that is the answer use gfi receptacles everywhere to protect us from this junk they are shipping by the container full
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