dewalt announcement today.

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News, not really.
But they really need to be clear. First the guy references the 18volts. Then he starts calling them 20volts .. the new product is 60v. Nothing really new. But the 20v is not a 20 volt battery, yet he seems to keep saying 20 volt, not 20v.. I think they are open to a lawsuit for misrepresenting the voltage... and how much voltage will that 60v have.. well he says 60 volts. after seeing the 20v be 18, I wonder how many volts it really is. So their marketing gimick of 20v to confuse , has confused them.. It's not 20volts, its a 20v or 18volt battery.
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Jeff

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On 2016-06-21 3:43 PM, woodchucker wrote:

That 60v must be one heavy sumbitch, my 14.4v gets heavy after an hour or so driving in deck screws.
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Froz....

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On 6/21/2016 4:14 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:

I just bought a weed machine with a 40v battery. It is no heavier than my 15.6v battery pack. Not sure of the amp- hour rating difference though.
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Twice as many cells, each half the size?

Probably half. ;-)
For a given technology and weight, you're going to get about the same energy storage. For the same weight, a 20V battery will be about twice the AH as a 40V battery. Of course there is a little difference in the amount of plastic involved but the above rule of thumb will work pretty well.
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On 6/21/2016 2:43 PM, woodchucker wrote:

I think we discussed this here several months ago. IIRC it was how they differentiate between Li-ion and older technology batteries.
Many do it to some extent.
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On 6/21/2016 4:21 PM, Leon wrote:

well, we did, but now they are clearly not using it to differentiate. They are mis-representing an 18v as a 20v. Same cells.
What they have done with the 20v is now they have 20v series, 20v parallel more cells for longer run time. But they are saying their cells are 4v when in fact they are the same cells as everyone elses. (claim is not a differentiatior.. it's an outright lie).
They are now saying their 60 volt (60v) yes they say its 60volts is 15 x 4volt cells. well thy are really 3.7volt cells. 55.5 volts. But using the fully charged voltage when it's topped off to represent it's run time which is wrong. all 18volts then would be 20volts. But they aren't. Anyway the 60v (real heavy) will switch to 20v parallel when plugged into a 20v unit to give a longer run time... great 3 times the weight.. why not carry 3 batteries and keep rotating with less weight. I agree that 60volts is good for big ass tools, but let's face it, I'm not sticking it in my drill.
The lies are rampant. The idea is limited.. it has its uses, but not like they show. Just too heavy. Oh, and this is the pro line now, which I guess the other stuff is no longer considered pro. sorry all you contractors, you're stuff is now consumer grade.
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Jeff

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On 6/21/2016 3:32 PM, woodchucker wrote:

While actual voltage matters, does it really? FWIW My so called 15 series Festool drill will out perform many 18 volt tools and the 15 is an implied 15 volt. So what ever the voltage, any ones 20 volt may not perform as well as any one else's 18 volt drill.
So IMHO the number used to represent a voltage or strength is relative.
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wrote:

Or misrepresenting 20V as 18V. 2MAYtoe/taMahtoe

They generally don't parallel cells. It's cheaper to use a larger cell.

No, they charge at about 4V and will be 4V immediately after charge. They'll quickly drop but it's all in the measurement. One measurement isn't right and the other wrong.

Face it. It's easy to figure out and it's not fooling anyone. No one buys a 60V tool because it has more power than a "55.5V tool".

Not lies at all.
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You are wrong - laptop batteries will often be available as 3, 6, or 9 cell -- all of them being 11.1 volt

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On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 22:17:48 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

What chemistry is 11.1V?? You mean that the batteries are often made from parallel *batteries*. OK, but the point is that the individual cells are *not* paralleled.

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In this case that have 3 sets of 5 cells connected in parallel that some way can chance to run into a single series to up the voltage.

Exactly, depending on the state of charge the voltage will be different. It is mostly at 18 volt but can be below that when neatly exhausted. Is this deceiving, not IMHO unless you do not expect voltage to drop with use.
Additionally if these batteries work like batteries with a different make up their measured voltage can drop significantly while operating under a load and then immediately show a higher voltage while under no load.

3 sets of batteries would certainly be more expensive than a single. I have an 18 volt battery that weighs significantly less than another of my 12 volt batteries. While it would be reasonable to assume that the 60 volt might be heavier than a 20 volt battery you would need facts to determine if the 60 will be too heavy for a drill. I recall when 18 volt batteries weighed more than the drill, that is not the rule today.

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On 6/22/2016 7:13 AM, Leon wrote:

And doing a little research, this new Flexvolt system is not intended to be used with the XL series hand drills. It is intended to be used with more HD usage equipment.
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On 6/22/2016 8:13 AM, Leon wrote:

It is deceiving, when it is the same battery that everyone else declares to be 18volt and they are calling it 20volt . The argument we had about is V volt, or naming. If it's naming, it's deceiving, but less so. But once they call it 20volt, when the rest of the world calls that same cell configuration in a pack an 18volt.. that's past deception. They lied. Typical marketing stuff. Lie so you can get the sale.

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On 6/22/2016 2:44 PM, woodchucker wrote:

Well If you feel uneasy about the way they market their products I would certainly suggest not buying that brand. I personally try to leave my emotions out of the decision making as I personally prefer tools that are performers. Packaging does not tell you if the tool will be powerful or good enough for the job so much as trying to sell the details on specs, which very well may not matter, and not actual performance comparisons.
I really do not care about the specs being precise to the n'th degree on the description label. I have mentioned this before, Festool ranks their drills by 12, 15, and 18 series. The 12 is actually a 10.8 volt, 15 is actually 14.4 volt and the 18 is actually 18 volt. The labeling is simply a reference as to which drills are going to be stronger. That is OK with me, I was going to go for an 18 but was told that the 15 has plenty of power and I would be satisfied going from a 12 volt Makita drill and impact to the 15 Festool. So much better is the Festool 15 than the Makita 12 that I have all but quit using an impact to drive screws including an 18 volt Bosch impact.
The stated or implied voltage is not an indicator of power between different brand lines, only between same brand lines. You can often see performance comparisons of "same voltage" drills and 99% of the time there is a difference in power depending on the brand.
What you should be focused on when buying a tool is if it will do what you need it to do.

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Leon wrote:

Just curious, does Consumer Reports provide any meaningful comparison data? A certain Woodworking mag? I've run across such across broad drill comparisons before.
Trivia fact: in the early 19-teens, the womens broad jump was renamed to the womens long jump.
Bill
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wrote:

the same time). I remember the name charge sometime around 1960 but it may have taken some time to get down to the public schools. I was jumping over 8' broads in the sixth grade. ;-)
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4ax.com:

If you're jumping over 8' broads, you need to reorganize your shop to get the material storage out of the work space. :-)
Puckdropper
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Puckdropper says...

School must have had a Hell of a women's basketball team.
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On Thu, 23 Jun 2016 05:20:24 -0400, "J. Clarke"

The "Amazons". ;-)
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krw wrote:

The year I was referring to corresponded to the "Olympic" event.

Lucky you! ; )
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