# Determining what size to cut rail and stiles

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• posted on April 15, 2013, 12:37 pm
I have a 1/4 thick 30 inch wide by 36 inch tall mirror I am making a frame for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. (I think I pos ted a link in another posting).
I believe the stiles are the length of the mirror. But the rails are confus ing. I assume the finished width including the frame will be the mirror wid th plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the depth of the channel the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this equals 34 1/4.
So stile should be 34 1/4 minus 2 times 2 1/2 plus 2 times the tennon lengt h? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?
(I have probable screwed somethign up...
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 12:39 pm
On Monday, April 15, 2013 7:37:01 AM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

e for. I will be using some 1/4 inch bits I bought off amazon. (I think I p osted a link in another posting).

using. I assume the finished width including the frame will be the mirror w idth plus the width of both stiles (2.5 inches)minus the depth of the chann el the mirror goes into. 2 times 7/16. I think this equals 34 1/4.

gth? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125?

Here are the bits I have: (Amazon.com product link shortened) its/dp/B008JFIZLO
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 12:48 pm

Not enough information without knowing what kind it joint you will be using.
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 1:00 pm
On Monday, April 15, 2013 7:48:16 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

I am not sure what you mean. It will be like cabinet doors. The mirror will fit into the grove of the rail and stile.
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 2:01 pm
On Monday, April 15, 2013 7:48:16 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

times the tennon > length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125? > > (I have probable screwed somethign up... > Not enough information without knowing what kind it joint you will be using.
Mortise & tenon? 7/16" for each tenon is not long enough, I would think. I think, in the earlier thread, someone suggested using a full lap joint.
Sonny
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 2:20 pm
On 4/15/2013 9:01 AM, Sonny wrote:

times the tennon > length? (I believe the tennon legth is 7/16.) Which equals 30.125? > > (I have probable screwed somethign up...

I suggested the full lap joint but he bought the bits and is determined to use them.
FWIW I did some looking around and found the bits he is talking about, they will work if he applies the glue properly In all 4 corners. But FWIW the method he is apparently going to use is not going to allow for easily replacement of the mirror should it break and or the joints will not be strong enough if he leaves a pair unglued.
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 2:10 pm
On 4/15/2013 8:48 AM, Leon wrote:

This situation calls for a SketchUp (SU) drawing! If I were the original poster, I might practice with a 5" by 7" mirror (cardboard) and see if are any surprises.
Bill
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 2:21 pm
On 4/15/2013 9:10 AM, Bill wrote:

I have already provided a Sketchup drawing with out any indication of it being considered by the OP in his other thread.
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 2:35 pm
On Monday, April 15, 2013 9:21:45 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

I bought the bits before seeing the posting about the lap joint. I agree that is a good joint. I just wanted to try these bits. Also, as I said earlier, I wanted a bead arounf the inside of the frame similar to the cabinets that will be below the mirror.
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 2:49 pm
On 4/15/2013 10:35 AM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

is a good joint. I just wanted to try these bits. Also, as I said earlier, I wanted a bead arounf the inside of the frame similar to the cabinets that will be below the mirror.

Depending on how much room you have, maybe you could use mitered corners reinforced with biscuits. I'd made darn sure it was strong enough so that no one gets hurt over it. Swingman or Leon may be able to advise whether this is strong enough configuration (not me).
Bill
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 3:30 pm
On Monday, April 15, 2013 9:49:10 AM UTC-5, Bill wrote:

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e that is a good joint. I just wanted to try these bits. Also, as I said ea rlier, I wanted a bead arounf the inside of the frame similar to the cabine ts that will be below the mirror.

The other thing I mentioned before, doing it the way I am mentioning you ca n replace the mirror. Someone showed a website on here where someone showed how to use exisiting cabinet doors with glass by raddeting out the trench the raised panel is normally in.
Why does everyone seem to frown on this method for making a mirror frame. I have two family members that had a cabinet company make one and it looks a s if this is how they were all made.
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 3:36 pm
On 4/15/2013 9:35 AM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

is a good joint. I just wanted to try these bits. Also, as I said earlier, I wanted a bead arounf the inside of the frame similar to the cabinets that will be below the mirror.

OK, so you still have the chance to make the frame for the mirror the correct way. Don't use the bits if you expect to disassemble in the future.
If you bought a rip blade before deciding that you need to make cross cuts would you still use the rip blade to cross cut?
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 3:44 pm
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

No, they have to be greater than the mirror.

The site you provided clearly says that the depth of cut is 3/8" (which is normal) so I don't know where you got 7/16".
Regardless of the depth of cut, you do *NOT* want the mirror to reach all the way into the groove; size your mirror about 1/8" less in both dimensions. The simplest thing is to make and dry assemble the frame then measure the inside dimensions. Let's say the frame is 30" wide and 36" high on the inside. The groove is recessed all around by 3/8 so a perfect fit would require a mirror 30 3/4 wide (30 + 3/8 + 3/8) by 36 3/4 tall (36 + 3/8 + 3/8). But you don't want the mirror to reach the bottom of the grooves, too much chance of breaking it when asembling the frame, so your mirror should be 30 5/8 (30 - 1/8) by 36 5/8 (36 - 1/8). ______________
Now let's figure out the rail & stile length for the 30" x 36" mirror you already have. The widths of frames & stiles is to be 2 1/2".
Looking at the previous paragraph, you can see that we need to subtract 5/8" from each mirror dimension to conform to what you have; that means we also have to subtract 5/8 from the example inside dimensions used in my example so they would become 29 3/8 x 35 3/8.
You need a frame with inside dimensions of 29 3/8 x 35 3/8. Since the wood is 2 1/2" wide you need to double that and add to the inside dimensions to get the length of rails & stiles; doing that gives you 34 3/8 for the rails and 40 3/8 for the stiles.
In practice, I at least would make the stiles a bit longer - 1/2 to 1", say - to give myself some jiggle room when assembling. Cut off excess after it is all together.
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 6:08 pm
On Monday, April 15, 2013 10:44:35 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:

Thanks for that. SO, you dont think it is a good idea to put the mirror in the full groove of the frame?
I am just amazed that most on here seem to from on the way I want to do it. Can anyone think of a better way to do it where I can have an inside perimeter bead or other decorative edge?
Thanks,
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 7:20 pm
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com writes:

anyone think of a better way to do it where I can have an inside perimeter bead or other decorative edge?

Everyone seems intent on making this a harder problem than it should be.
Use your cope&stick cutters, then rebate out the back. A well-fitting cope&stick glued joint will be plenty strong enough.
scott
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 9:27 pm

If you are putting it in a groove you need a little space so it doesn't bottom out and break as you hook the frame together.
If you are building the frame and intend to insert the mirror into a rabbet on the back of the frame, you aren't going to break the mirror putting it into the rabbet but it is still a good ide to have the mirror a smidge smaller, just makes life easier.

There isn't anything wrong with what you want to do and the bits you have will do it. Some will say that a 3/8 tongue on the rails is insufficient. I say it's fine.
The only thing I wouldn't do is put the mirror in a groove. It can never come out then without destroying the frame. A rabbet on the back of the frame works just as well and the mirror is easily removeable.
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• posted on April 15, 2013, 11:14 pm
On 4/15/2013 1:08 PM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Can anyone think of a better way to do it where I can have an inside perimeter bead or other decorative edge?

Some of us know from experience, some know from what they have read Google.
You do not want a captured mirror.
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• posted on April 16, 2013, 2:48 am
wrote:

That's because "most on here" can foresee what you can't, or won't: that anything made of glass will eventually break, and when -- not if -- that time comes, you will wish you had made a wooden frame into which a new piece of glass could easily be inserted.

Better ways have been suggested, but you're not listening.

And some deduce it from first principles. Regardless of how the knowledge was acquired, though, whether by experience, observation, or deduction, what Leon says is right:

+1
Same rule applies to glass-front cabinet doors, BTW.
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• posted on April 16, 2013, 12:20 pm
On Monday, April 15, 2013 9:48:46 PM UTC-5, Doug Miller wrote:

Yes I have listened. I also saif I wanted an inside bead on the frame. I am a relative newbie but I dont see how I can easily do that on that lap joint.
I also said that, after looking at the link someone else posted, I can replace the glass doing it the way I want to by rabbeting out the groove.
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• posted on April 16, 2013, 1:39 pm
On 4/16/2013 7:20 AM, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Use your new bit cut cut a quarter round, rip it off of the stock and glue those in place.
This is a great place to get suggestions and ideas and every one is an expert in their own mind. You are going to get a vast and varied list of ways to do this and like life you will get different results.
The way you want to do this is "a way to do it" but not the best.