design question

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I'm designing and building an entertainment center out of red oak. I plan to use frame/pannel contstruction for both the carcass and doors. Is there any reason why I should not use oak plywood for the panels? This will be mission style, and the panels will not be raised. I was planing on using 1/4 oak ply. -What will be the actual thickness of 1/4" oak ply? (3/16ths?) will that be too thin? Should I try to get 3/8ths? Thanks for any tips.
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No, that is acceptable as long as your frames are strong. The panels should float and be non load supporting.

Actually about 7/64" thick and not too thin as long as the panel is not needed for strength.
Should I try to get 3/8ths?
I do not think you will find Oak veneer that thickness.

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On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:00:31 GMT, "Leon"

Why would you object to gluing ply panels into the frame?
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Tom Watson wrote:

panels should

I don't know, that's why I'm asking the question. I didn't think there would be an objection, but I thought I'd make sure. I didn't want to have to glue up panels of 1/4 thickness, that didn't seem like too much fun!
Thanks for the replies

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Not only is there not an objection but, contrary to the previous poster's assertion, there is a positive benefit to gluing a plywood panel into a solid frame. It unifies the assembly and makes it much more capable of resisting deformation - which is the key to strength.
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wrote:

Actually never mind, I was thinking solid wood panel vs. plywood. Solid wood will expand and contract and needs to float so that it will not pop open a frame joint as it expands or split itself as it contracts. The plywood panel should do fine glued in. Sorry for my confusion.
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OK, now I'm getting a bit confused. I understand that plywood is dimensionally more stable than hardwood glue ups, but so stable that you could actually glue it right into a frame? i.e. there would be no seasonal movement at all?? IT doesn't need to "float" at all? (Do I sound incredulous?)
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yup.
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Good Grief! We should rename this forum, Myth Busters. I would bet that until now most on this forum ( including me) would of insisted upon letting them float. Cheers, JG
Tom Watson wrote:

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wrote:

Because there's no point to doing it. It _shouldn't_ hurt, from a moisture movement point of view, but equally there's no positive reason to do it. A Mission style piece should be plenty strong enough just on the M&T's of the frame.
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On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 01:21:23 +0000, Andy Dingley

Can't agree with that, Andy.
The lateral strength that is introduced to the assembly by the glued in ply is a great benefit.
In a perfect world, all four feet hit the floor with equal force. In the odd instance of the imperfect world, these feet hit with varying force, which works on the frames over time.
The amount of glued area that is introduced to the frame and panel assembly by gluing in the ply panel is tremendous, when compared to the glued area of the joint faces.
As the strength of the assembly is aided by the glued area, giving away the potential strength of the frame to panel glue line would be reprehensible.
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wrote:

I'm sure nobody will object, but understanding wood movement is very important. Gluing the panels will cause stress with changes in humidity. Stain and finish the panels before assembly.
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No.
No.
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Here is where I would disagree with you. At least for the staining, and especially if the panel is _not_ glued. Too many times I have seen cabinet doors in which the panel - whether ply or not - has shifted and it exposes an unfinished area. It would seem that there would be a concern that the dados in the frame be large enough to hold the (thicker) finished panel, but other than that what is the problem - that the glue (which you recommend) won't hold? I agree with you that gluing ply panels can be OK and enhance the door's integrity. But is that essential? To the extent that gluing-in a ply panel is helpful, is it so critical that having finish on some of the surface will substantially lessen the (potential) enhancement?
You may say that a glued-in ply panel _won't_ shift so pre-finishing is not needed. Maybe.
Personally, I do not want any unfinished panel areas to show and so at least staining the panel before assembly seems like a good idea. FWIW. -- Igor
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We are talking specifically about a glued in plywood panel.

Not a problem with a glued in panel.

This has been explained elsewhere in the thread.

The glued in panel will not shift. Not maybe. Absolutely.

If you would apply your logic, you might as well prefinish the working faces of your mortise and tenon joinery.
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I admire your woodworking but not your analysis of my logic. NB: You get paid for woodworking and I get paid for logic. -- Igor
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NB: Masters in Philosophy, concentration in Logic.
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As I said, I get paid for mine - market tested, just as is your woodworking.
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So, let me get this straight.
You want me to give you credit for having greater logic, because you get paid for it but you are arguing a woodworking point with me, who gets paid for woodworking and, by the same reasoning, you really should just be saying, "well, the guy gets paid for it, so he must be right".
watson - who likes all sorts of silliness, but especially infinite reductions...
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Well, yes.*
(* - I drew the line when you commented on my logic qua logic, extending it: "If you would apply your logic ...".)

Thanks for the dance. -- Igor
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