Denatured alcohol

[Patrick Olguin]

[clip]

No. Nonononononononononononononononononono. Nope. Negative. No way.

Methanol is way bad. It is extremely volatile. This is a plus for a fast-drying evaporative solvent, and a huge minus if the stuff is poisonous. Why? It's easily inhaled, and absorbed through mucous membranes. What's that? Your nose, your eyes, and to some extent, your skin. It is dangerous to your optic nerve. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DRINK IT FOR IT TO SEVERELY EFF YOU UP. Yes, I was screaming just then.

Do not use the terms methanol and benign without in intervening not. And comparing it to other nasty solvents in the shop is meaningless. It's bad shit all on its own. Period.

Methanol is my last choice as a denaturant for ethyl alcohol. There are other lower alchols which are *less* (and they are by no means benign) poisonous than methanol. Butyl and isopropyl alcohols come to mind.

As a big galoot who has done a good number of projects in shellac (thinned by alcohol), I go out of my way to find denatured alcohol which contains no methanol. I also try to avoid benzene and MEK as much as possible as well. When you buy a solvent, insist on seeing the MSDS on it.

No matter what alcohol you use, make sure you have a well-ventilated environment, and if that isn't possible, wear a respirator certified for VOC's (volatile organic compounds).

Hell, even ethyl alcohol is hardly benign. If you get enough in you (no, you don't have to drink it), it's deadly as well.

Give solvents the respect they deserve, or find yourself dead or with brain damage. Well, for some of us, with even *more* brain damage.

O'Deen

[Groggy]

Hi Paddy, long time no read. I noticed you said "I also try to avoid benzene and MEK", it struck me as a bit understated, as I remember Defence pulling MEK out of all Air Force paint shops back in the mid-80's - bad stuff. So I checked a little and found the US doesn't appear to think it's as dangerous as we do.

Further info below:

Oz What effect might methyl ethyl ketone have on my health? Breathing methyl ethyl ketone for short periods of time (ie painting in a poorly ventilated area) can affect the nervous system. Effects include headaches, dizziness, fatigue, narcosis (acts like a narcotic), nausea, vomiting, and passing out. Methyl ethyl ketone vapour irritates the eyes, nose, and throat. Prolonged contact with the skin causes irritation. Contact with the eyes can permanently damage them. Repeated exposure may damage the nervous system and may affect the brain.

USA Methyl ethyl ketone is used as a solvent. Acute (short-term) inhalation exposure to methyl ethyl ketone in humans results in irritation to the eyes, nose, and throat. Limited information is available on the chronic (long-term) effects of methyl ethyl ketone in humans. Chronic inhalation studies in animals have reported slight neurological, liver, kidney, and respiratory effects. No information is available on the developmental, reproductive, or carcinogenic effects of methyl ethyl ketone in humans. Developmental effects, including decreased fetal weight and fetal malformations, have been reported in mice and rats exposed to methyl ethyl ketone via inhalation and ingestion. EPA has classified methyl ethyl ketone as a Group D, not classifiable as to human carcinogenicity.

cheers,

Greg

[joe]

Denatured alcohol is usually sold as "Shellac Thinner" at the Borg, so look for that instead.

Joe Drunk

: Does anyone know if denatured alcohol is interchangeable with other : solvents? I have to spray some Zinser BIN primer but the can says I have to : clean the sprayer afterwards with denatured alcohol. The sprayer is : borrowed from a friend, so I don't want to experiment with it. The Borg : don't seem to sell this and neither do the other local hardware stores. : Maybe I will have to try a painting store.

: Blair

[Bob Bowles]

[George]

It's called "huffing," and it's not the addict, it's the middle-schooler who normally huffs. By Jr High there're normally enough pushers to provide a high, and enough money from home to buy it.

nitrous oxide in Redi-Whip, through gasoline and foot spray, they'll do whatever's at hand.

[Bay Area Dave]

George, you seem to know an awful lot about this subject... :)

dave

George wrote:

[George]

EMS will do that for you. You get to see and perhaps treat the whacked, the wild, and even the dead (by hanging) who were huffing.

[Doug Miller]

And sometimes the fried... a few years ago, two local teens were huffing propane inside a van. One of them lit a cigarette.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

[Howard Ruttan]

wrote..

My local Borg sells it as denatured alcohol. They all deal with the same supplier so look for a big (gallon sized?) blue can. I don't think they carry it in small cans. Some HD stores don't carry it at all. Another HD I frequent explained that nobody buys it (or lacquer thinner) except drug addicts so they won't stock it. Don't ask me what drug addiction has to do with it - I just use it for shellac.

[Bay Area Dave]

is anyone working that field get "used" to what they see? Can you stay detached? Is there high turnover?

dave

George wrote:

[George]

No way to be detached, even at the end of a busy 48-hour shift when you're hard pressed to stay awake - you're dealing with humans. Granted, some are incredibly stupid, but you can't brood over it.

Some days (Sunday) the kid pukes out the chunk on, and turns pink in front of you, and even though mom and grandma don't say "thanks," the glass is at least half full.

When a sweet-faced stranger comes up on the sidewalk to give you a hug, then thanks you and identifies herself as the hamburger face whose left eye you packed up and secured to her cheek before you shipped her from an auto accident ten years back, the cup runs over.

[Bay Area Dave]

George, thanks for sharing the "flip side"; the satisfaction of helping folks in need. My hat's off to you, sir!

dave

George wrote:

[Joe User]

isopropyl may be an acceptable substitute, but it is not the same as denatured alcohol.

-j

[Dan Dunphy]

Colorado Springs, CO My advice may be worth what you paid for it.

[Dave Balderstone]

In Canada, you can find it at the pharmacy as Rubbing Alcohol

*Compound*.

95% anhydrous ethanol.

The paint stores here in Saskatoon didn't have a clue what I was talking about.

Lee Valley carries it as well, but unless you have a store in your city it's too expensive when you factor in shipping.

djb

[L. A. Powell]

I found at my local Home Depot (Jacksonville, FL) in the staining section.

[LeeBurk]

Absolutely Home Depot sells denatured alcohol. It is labeled simply "alcolhol" and is sold in the paint department in quarts and gallons.