Denatured alcohol

Page 2 of 3  


It's a *lot* more poisonous than the other common alcohols.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

So? I'm not drinking it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I don't like methanol mostly because of its inhalation toxicity, and the fact that it is a regulated substance for disposal hereabouts. The first might not bother someone young and in good heath, but some of us older farts, ex smokers and drinkers to boot, need all the help we can get for our lungs and livers.
I know ... wear a mask. I try to, but am not always successful.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:44:53 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

You don't need to. It's poisonous when absorbed through the skin or when the fumes are inhaled. -- jc Published e-mail address is strictly for spam collection. If e-mailing me, please use jc631 at optonline dot net
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 00:05:37 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

Courtesy: Irvine Sax "Hazardous Chemicals in the Workplace"
Isopropyl alcohol OSHA limit 400ppm. Eye irritant and low toxicity via skin.
Methyl alcohol OSHA limit 200ppm. Irritant and cumulative poison. Readily absorbed via skin.
Ethyl alcohol OSHA limit 1000ppm. Is readily oxidised in the body, in contrast to methanol, no cumulative effect occurs. Large or repeated doses can cause alcoholism, liver cirrhosis, and alcohol poisoning. (I guess many of us know that!)
Barry Lennox
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Barry Lennox wrote:

OSHA ppm limits are for what? the air? or liquids that touch you? If the latter, it is nonsense. 70 percent isopropyl alcohol is actually 7000 ppm. 1000 ppm ethanol is 10 percent whereas many after shaves are near 50 percent. then 1000 ppm ethanol is a 10 percent solution. Anyway, all that is irrelevant to the discussion. 200 ppm methanol is a 0.2 percent solution. You don't drinking itand you wear protective breathing equipment, don't you? You want to compare the effect with paint thinner, turpentine, lacquer thinner, and other solvents?
Unless you are drinking these fluids, spraying without using a respirator, or have you bare hands and arms emersed in liquid, I don't see the problem?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Not quite right. ppm is parts per million not parts per ten thousand.
100% = 1,000,000ppm 70% = 700,000ppm 1000ppm = 0.10% 200ppm = 0.02%
Art

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Damn! You're correct. That will teach me not to divide it out. Maybe OSHA's ppm refer to blood levels.
Wood Butcher wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ayup.
Silliness by other posters aside, what's in the air can't kill you. Has to get inside first.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:01:45 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

You probably know full well it's PEL in air

Agreed, nonsense, no point in duscussing it.

Quite wrong, 70% would be 700,000 ppm. But you are missing the point anyway.

Yes, Sax lists all those, and thousands more; but the OP was discussing the toxicities of alcohols.

Excellent, use whatever you want.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 00:05:37 GMT, "George E. Cawthon"

Methanol ("Wood alcohol," or methyl alcohol) is poison ious and known to be carcinogenic. Rubber gloves, respirator, and plenty of fresh air is recommended.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Phisherman wrote:

Right, that doesn't make it nasty. Compared to many solvents and other fluids in the workshop, it is practically benign, unless you drink it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

[clip]
No. Nonononononononononononononononononono. Nope. Negative. No way.
Methanol is way bad. It is extremely volatile. This is a plus for a fast-drying evaporative solvent, and a huge minus if the stuff is poisonous. Why? It's easily inhaled, and absorbed through mucous membranes. What's that? Your nose, your eyes, and to some extent, your skin. It is dangerous to your optic nerve. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DRINK IT FOR IT TO SEVERELY EFF YOU UP. Yes, I was screaming just then.
Do not use the terms methanol and benign without in intervening not. And comparing it to other nasty solvents in the shop is meaningless. It's bad shit all on its own. Period.
Methanol is my last choice as a denaturant for ethyl alcohol. There are other lower alchols which are *less* (and they are by no means benign) poisonous than methanol. Butyl and isopropyl alcohols come to mind.
As a big galoot who has done a good number of projects in shellac (thinned by alcohol), I go out of my way to find denatured alcohol which contains no methanol. I also try to avoid benzene and MEK as much as possible as well. When you buy a solvent, insist on seeing the MSDS on it.
No matter what alcohol you use, make sure you have a well-ventilated environment, and if that isn't possible, wear a respirator certified for VOC's (volatile organic compounds).
Hell, even ethyl alcohol is hardly benign. If you get enough in you (no, you don't have to drink it), it's deadly as well.
Give solvents the respect they deserve, or find yourself dead or with brain damage. Well, for some of us, with even *more* brain damage.
O'Deen
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Hi Paddy, long time no read. I noticed you said "I also try to avoid benzene and MEK", it struck me as a bit understated, as I remember Defence pulling MEK out of all Air Force paint shops back in the mid-80's - bad stuff. So I checked a little and found the US doesn't appear to think it's as dangerous as we do.
Further info below:
Oz What effect might methyl ethyl ketone have on my health? Breathing methyl ethyl ketone for short periods of time (ie painting in a poorly ventilated area) can affect the nervous system. Effects include headaches, dizziness, fatigue, narcosis (acts like a narcotic), nausea, vomiting, and passing out. Methyl ethyl ketone vapour irritates the eyes, nose, and throat. Prolonged contact with the skin causes irritation. Contact with the eyes can permanently damage them. Repeated exposure may damage the nervous system and may affect the brain. <http://www.deh.gov.au/atmosphere/airtoxics/sok/profiles/methyl.html
USA Methyl ethyl ketone is used as a solvent. Acute (short-term) inhalation exposure to methyl ethyl ketone in humans results in irritation to the eyes, nose, and throat. Limited information is available on the chronic (long-term) effects of methyl ethyl ketone in humans. Chronic inhalation studies in animals have reported slight neurological, liver, kidney, and respiratory effects. No information is available on the developmental, reproductive, or carcinogenic effects of methyl ethyl ketone in humans. Developmental effects, including decreased fetal weight and fetal malformations, have been reported in mice and rats exposed to methyl ethyl ketone via inhalation and ingestion. EPA has classified methyl ethyl ketone as a Group D, not classifiable as to human carcinogenicity. <http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/methylet.html>
cheers,
Greg
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I forgot to also say that Isopropyl is often diluted in the first place. If it is diluted with water there are other troubles to consider.
--
Young Carpenter

"Violin playing and Woodworking are similar, it takes plenty of money,
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Blair wrote:

I'm not trying to be a smart-a$$, but are you sure? I found it, by the gallon, at Home Depot, Lowes and Ace Hardware. It's alongside the other solvents - mineral spirits, etc.
--
************************************
Chris Merrill
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Chris Merrill wrote:

It looks like a permit is required to sell denatured alcohol in Canada. See:
http://www.infoentrepreneurs.org/english/display.cfm?Code#15&coll _FEDSBIS_E
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
scribbled

http://www.infoentrepreneurs.org/english/display.cfm?Code#15&coll _FEDSBIS_E
If it wasn't for those regulations, people might get drunk, beat each other up and kill other people while driving. It's time to ban it, nevermind the ineffective regulations. Oh ... You mean it's been tried?
Note that Lee Valley can't export its shellac thinner, so I suspect that the US Revenooers probably have similar regulations.
But we can get pure methyl alcohol, sold as methyl hydrate in all the better borgs.
Luigi Replace "no" with "yk" twice in reply address for real email address
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
But what really is the difference?
John
Luigi Zanasi wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I hope you aren't making martinis with that stuff John!
Blair

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.