Delta discontinuing parts for older tools...

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No kidding about the cost of living here. I am a fourth generation Californian with a Bachelors degree from UC Davis and I can't buy a house within 200 miles of where I grew up. This is getting ridiculous. Dan
Mark & Juanita wrote:

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<...snipped...>
I've noticed certain products that had that disclaimer for several years now...
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Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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Lawrence Wasserman wrote:

Many finishes are listed as "Not For Sale In California." IIRC, CA has the tightest VOC laws in the country, to the point of ridulousness in some cases. The finish manufacturers that make material that would run up againt the regulations simply label it as above. It can drive mail order retailers nuts, but is a good move for most of us in the other 49 states.
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Charlie Self wrote:

Yep it has even touched us in the 51st state Aust. :) I purchased an item the other day, can't remember what it was but I do recall that the packaging had something similar to the following. "Attention this item may contain products that are considered harmful to your health in the State of California" Shit, I sure am glad that it only effects people living there. ;) regards John
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All kinds of things will kill you in California. It's much safer to live somewhere else.
>

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wrote:
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Yep, the exact wording is, "Warning: this item contains [or may contain, depending on the product] products that are known by the state of California to cause cancer" This warning is getting out of control to the point that manufacturers are putting it on just about everything they sell. i.e, the warning is now totally useless and meaningless -- law of unintended consequences strikes again.
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Mark & Juanita wrote:

Sort of like the warning here in Oz. "Not suitable for children under 3" or "Not suitable for children under 3, may contain small parts" This is on every toy you buy, even those obviously meant for small baby's and children under 3. It's a crazy mixed up world ;) regards John
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Sherwin Williams store on southern CALIF coast can't stock Fast Dry Oil Varnish in gallons because of VOC regs but CAN stock Qts.
wrote:

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joe2 wrote:

Yeah, good luck with that one. Let me know how it turns out...
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John Dill Wrote: > joe2 wrote:

Rarely is it ever a problem. Manfs and retailers know the rules and everyone just goes along with it. Fwiw, most products never see warranty repairs anyways.
Important stuff first: EVERYONE should check with their states warranty laws. They are all different, there are many laws out there to protect consumers, many folks arent even aware of them. Also, see the Magnuson-Moss Act, the fed law regarding warranties. Most folks I know dont have a clue about warranties. If Delta sells the same Unisaw with a 2-yr warranty (costs less) and a 5-yr warranty (costs more), both saws have the same implied warranty of 5-years. Some states do not allow the manf to limit the implied warranty, some do.
Now the babbling: Calif can adopt aggressive consumer protection laws because the state has a huge population and thus a huge retail sales base. The only thing new about Califs warranty laws are that consumers must now be given notice in writing that their warranty is frozen in place pending repair and return of the item. The laws apply to any manf that distributes product in this state, regardless of origin of manf or distribution. Calif can and does reach across state line to pursue civil and criminal actions against manfs.
In a nutshell, Calif decided electrical junk would not be sold here. Likewise, retailers cant try to snag a quick buck buy pawning off garbage. Think of it as being responsible for your own actions (a novel idea), but in this case its the manf and retailers that need to be responsible for their own actions. Not a bad thing. Any manf making a quality product has no worries. Manfs of shoddy product should worryCalif is one of several states that does not allow a manf to limit liability for consequential damages resulting from the use of a product.
Many of Califs laws have had a ripple effect across all the states, i.e. requiring a toll free number to call if you need repairs and/or proving a list of repair centers with the product. It is easier to provided a toll free number and a list of repair centers for all 50 states than to just do it for Calif residents then try to explain to the other 49 states why they arent worthy of the same service. Same for product registration, Calif forbids a manf from requiring the return of a warranty card or the registration of a product, nor can a manf require any kind of internet registration. It is easier to make product/warranty registration optional for everyone than try to keep Calif separate.
My personal favs are Califs laws that prevent manfs, distributors, and/or sellers from doing anything that diminishes a warranty. And extended warranties cant parallel the manfs warranty, they start when the manfs warranty ends. The increasingly popular scheme where manfs engage in price-fixing by saying that you must buy their product from an authorized dealer or you dont get a product warranty only works in the other 49 statesnot in California, because the manf is prohibited from diminishing the original warranty.
Fed law already prevents a manf from controlling product distribution, i.e. you can buy something at Sams Club or Costco and resell it as new product in your own local shop if you want to, and the warranty stays in effect as it would with any new product. Thats a federal law. Claiming not for sell in California isnt going to cut it. Every item sold in the USA comes with an implied warranty of fitness (Magnuson-Moss Act).
Just so you dont think all is bad in here Arnolds Kingdom, new for 2005 are some absolutely wicked anti-spam and anti-spyware laws. Calif has cases pending against 3 companies, one in Calif, one outside Calif, and I dont recall where the third company is. Their fines are each $1-million per day for everyday they distributed email spam. I suspect as word gets around spam will decline for everyone in all 50 states since there is no way to know which state a computer (laptop) occupies at any given time. Websites accessible in Calif cannot automatically add you to their spam list. You must check a box that says add me, not one that says dont add me. Theres also some new stuff regarding active software you do not know about or consent to, i.e. spyware and beacons, but I havent had time to follow it.
Oh, one last thing, it is almost impossible to sell something as as is in Calif. Keep that in mind the next time you buy something from a business or Power Seller on Ebay, a Calif corporation.
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joe2


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wrote:

So how does that work when an individual sells his old whatever to someone. It can't be sold "as is"? This is seemingly just a big yard sale for some people.
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wrote:

It was my understanding That
this law applies ONLY to Manufacturers Based in California or who have Factory stores in California... a Manufacturer based in another State, or Counrty has no legal obligation under the law...
I do not live in the Rebublic of Kalifornia...and I honestly am glad I do not.... That said...its cold outside so maybe I'll rethink everything
Bob G.
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wrote:

Then come to a place like Arizona, Florida, or Texas -- we need people to dilute the Californians moving here.

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wrote:

I have to wonder what B&D is thinking. Do they honestly believe that a tool with the kind of price tag a Unisaw or DJ-20 has shouldn't have repair parts available for a MUCH longer period of time than 6 years? Parts availability is one reason I bought a DJ-20! I want that jointer to be my lifetime purchase.
Woodworking is going to be prohibitively expensive as a hobby if a major tool has to be replaced everytime it breaks after 6 years for lack of a part. And maybe too expensive for a small professional shop too.
A cordless drill? A belt sander? A router? Well, maybe replacement is better than repair. But maybe not. It depends on the part. For example, I've got a big PC plunge router (model 7539) that lost it's cord. I've had it for a long time. I'd have hated to have had to toss it just because of a simple part like a cord. Fortunately a repair cord was available.
I think that the tool manufacturers should be very careful about this. Unlike the sited example of consumer electronics, models don't change all that fast and some of the tools sold to tradesmen and hobbyists alike are very expensive and worthy of repair. There's also the matter of brand loyalty. While I may not buy a PC example in every category, my present experience makes them the starting point when I'm looking for a new tool. In one category, I've got multiples (routers) And even if I choose a different brand, I'm buying "top shelf" stuff. DeWalt, Bosch, Milwaukee, Makita, etc, etc.
Why buy the "best" if repair isn't available? Surely they make more profit on a PC router than a B&D router! Wouldn't they want to protect that?
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wrote:

I've been gone, noticed this created a fairly long thread.
I would like to know the source that supports the statement that B & D is going to stop servicing industrial machinery six years from the date of discontinuance of the model. Or is that not what the OP meant?
Frank
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An awful lot of parts for that equipment isn't custom. Typical hardware items that fail should be available for years. And it's not like the design changes drastically every couple of years, at least for the better equipment.
John Dill wrote:

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I've heard of people getting parts from Delta for 40 or 50 year old Unisaws. A number of the parts for a 40 year old Unisaw are not the same as a modern Unisaw.
Will B&D keep these parts around or restock them (If even possible) since that particular model of Unisaw has been discontinued for many years?
Brian Elfert
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Brian Elfert wrote:

Hard to say...my understanding from what I was told by a gal on the phone some time ago when ordering a piece for an old jointer that it would be sometime in arriving as they would have to have it produced (machined) in order to supply it...except for castings, I think that's what they typically did. Once really old castings are out of stock, I assume it would either take a continuing demand to cause them to occasionally have another production run.
Frank B may know more specifics...
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So, time in the metalshop to keep the woodshop working properly. Oh, darn.
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Some of you may have Rockwell/Delta metalworking equiipment. If you have any, you would know that there has been NO parts available these machines for years and users have to rebuild the machines themselves.
If the phasing out of spare parts news is correct (and I have no reason to doubt it), it will be a repeat of what has happened to the metalworking side of Rockwell/Delta.
As someone else has already pointed out, if you can't repair it then you buy just enough quality to last for the time you use the tool...in other words you start shopping for price only on disposable tools. If you look at what other products B&D sell, they are cost engineered to the penny. It would not surprise me if ten years from now we look back and remember how Delta how USED to be a brand to buy and how much better the HuFlungDung tools from China are compared to the future Delta offerings.
TMT
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