If any of you out there have any older Delta equipment, be advised that Delta ( B&D) is dropping a lot of parts/support for older tools. B&D sunset policy is 6 years for parts support. Better order what you need now, if it isn't already too late... John
My worst fears confirmed _if_ this is, in fact, true.
Electronics manufacturers started doing this years ago, and will place dates on the microfiche and computer parts lists. To the day that the parts are no longer required by law to be stocked, they are loaded into garbage rams and crushed. Employees are not allowed to take them home, they do not donate them to a worthy cause, and you cannot buy them as surplus. They are after the tax write-offs and accelerated obsolescence of equipment in the field.
Add yet _another_ brand to the list of mismanaged companies I will not consider buying from. One of Delta's stronger points was the retention of parts needed for repairing older equipment.
So, B&D, what possible reason could anyone have to chose your brands over, say, some no-name Chinese import? I assume the other holdings, such as Dewalt, Porter-Cable, DeVilbiss, Oldham and FLEX will also follow suit? Talk about the BORG...
Idiot modern era MBA's.
Greg G.
Hell ... no need to chose, they all come from the same factory any way.
Yep, still chuckling over the glowing reports earlier this week on how dedicated to "value" B & D is ... my ass!
Not to worry. I am sure the aftermarket producers will be in line to provide parts as they do for Ryobi and others. At 3 to 4 times the origninal OEM price.
RonB
"Greg G." wrote in ignorance:
Not quite. Decades ago I worked for an electronics manufacturer and we surplused off some obsolete product inventory to the bottom feeders. They did not take adequate handling measures and introduced Electro-Static Damage to the parts (ESD does not always cause immediate failure and often results in infant mortality). The customers they sold the damaged parts to looked to us, as the manufacturer, to provide warrantee replacement/refund. Of course we wouldn't do this and explained why. The end result was that our reputation got tarnished. Ergo everything was crushed from then on. The tax write off was incidental. The accelerated obsolescence statement is pure bullshit as we informed all our customers (who had purchased any parts over the past 5 years) of the impending End-Of-Life for the parts and gave them 1 year to order parts for their lifetime repair needs. This is now pretty much standard procedure for EOL'ing a part in the electronics industry.
There are also no laws which I am aware of which require stocking of electronic parts. Military suppliers excepted.
Art
Ain't that the truth, I'm beginning to think every tool or part out there is made by the same China Manufacture and only the name stamped on it is changed.
Damn doesn't Delta and B&D own Porter Cable? Damn most of my hand power tools are Porter Cable. Who owns Bosch, Milwaukee, and Dewalt, these days?
Rich
I find this all rather stupid thinking. I mean how much has the basic stationary WWing machines changed over the years? Almost nil. I'm guessing they are having a hard time selling new machines. But, what they don't realize is that selling parts to keep the older machines working can be a cash cow by keeping those who own such equipment loyal to the brand. Dummies.
That kind of thinking is okay when selling dispoable B&D *tools*...if you can call them tools. Most people throw them away after they stop working anyways. Cheaper to buy a new one (if you're stupid to buy another crappy tool) than get it repaired. But this isn't so with the type of machines that Delta manufactures and sells. We're talking about machines that cost hundreds if not thousands of dollars...not some stupid sander that looks like a mouse.
One of the things I'm noticing about Craftsman is that they're finally realizing after serveral decades of producing crappy tools is that people want to buy and are willing to pay for quality tools. Their new machines aren't top notch, but they're getting better than before.
Layne
Actually it might be a good idea of those on the REC wrote to B&D and expressed their feelings about the policy - bitching here does little good...
BB
Yes, quite.
Mil contract Tektronix oscilloscope repair - This Decade:
I'm talking consumer electronics - consumer equipment manufacturers. They determine the EOL date when the model is introduced - this keeps inventory at a minimum and support and obsolescence at a fixed point.
Bullshit? Hardly - consumer stuff is designed for specific life span. You can often acquire a replacement part from the OEM, but not always. Most brands use generic IC's, except for the masked-rom micros, but not always. JVC, for instance, is fond of customizing LSIs, and then discontinuing them before the sets are _actually_ EOL. They determine the EOL date, not the unit's age, condition, or customer's desire.
ESD stands for Electro Static Discharge... Damage is what you get afterwards...
And I seriously doubt that ESD semiconductor moleholes were the reason behind crushing 200,000 resistors, a truckload of 25XP22 CRTs, and hundreds of various cabinet and mechanical parts.
Again - _Consumer_ equipment manufacturers used to be required to stock replacement parts for a specific number of years - seven, I believe. No one seems to be enforcing these things anymore, however. Do they even enforce this anymore for other home appliances like washers, dryers, and refrigerators? Consumer Products like Unisaws?
I personally had hoped to use my Unisaw longer than 7 years, or any other arbitrary date limit determined by another.
Greg G.
Posting here is not entirely a waste of time. It may alert people to a problem to be handled.
Not for those in California. If you have something that plugs into the wall, California REQUIRES the manf to have parts on hand to exact any warranty repair for 3-years after the item is sold, regardless of the term of the written warranty. And, manfs are required to have all parts available for 7-years after the product is sold. It?s not Delta?s choice to make?in California.
Calif has some wicked-cool consumer protection laws. Manfs are required to maintain warranty repair facilities in the vicinity of where the product is sold, a toll-free 800 number must be provided with the item, if something needs warranty repair, the warranty is frozen in place until the product is repaired (as of Jan ?05 consumers must be notified in writing of this) and after repair the warranty resumes where it left off.
Any manf that thinks they will dump repair issues on the consumer needs to think again. Calif law makes all retailers of electrical/electronic products a warranty drop-of station, and makes the retailer liable for the warranty repairs. There are laws that allow retailers to collect damages from the manf, but it is all transparent to the consumer. Basically, if Delta won?t step up to the plate, any local Delta retailer can be hauled into small claims court, then the retailer can withhold payment on goods they receive from Delta.
Should my Delta Unisaw ever require warranty repair, Delta is REQUIRED to come to my home and do the repair, or pick the saw, fix it and return it at no charge to me. Anything that uses electricity, weights more than 70-lbs, is awkward to carry, or is ?installed? is required to be repaired in at the home or pick up and deliver is to be arranged and paid for by the manf. AT 300+ lbs, it?s definitely Delta?s problem?or at least a local Delta retailer?s problem.
Oh, and if Delta doesn?t complete the repairs within 30-days, they are required to buy back the product.
Does this apply to retailers that don't have a business nexus in California and simply ship things in?
It is a wonder that anyone does business in California these days with all the extra rules and regulations. Those of us not in California are probably subsidizing these laws as the manufacturers/retailers probably don't charge more than any other state.
I have no idea what Delta's repair policies normally. Will they send someone out to repair a Unisaw, no matter what state?
Brian Elfert
Wonder how long it will be before ads for products will carry the lable "not available in California"?
Creating a whole new set of opportunities for somebody...
Barry
Definitely a different paradigm. I was talking about electronics *component* mfgrs. Sorry I didn't make that clear. After spending so many years in the component business I guess I kind of had my blinders on re the consumer guys. I agree with you there.
Art
Sure. But at higher cost than anywhere else. Again, opening opportunities for retailers just across the border.
I have to wonder what B&D is thinking. Do they honestly believe that a tool with the kind of price tag a Unisaw or DJ-20 has shouldn't have repair parts available for a MUCH longer period of time than 6 years? Parts availability is one reason I bought a DJ-20! I want that jointer to be my lifetime purchase.
Woodworking is going to be prohibitively expensive as a hobby if a major tool has to be replaced everytime it breaks after 6 years for lack of a part. And maybe too expensive for a small professional shop too.
A cordless drill? A belt sander? A router? Well, maybe replacement is better than repair. But maybe not. It depends on the part. For example, I've got a big PC plunge router (model 7539) that lost it's cord. I've had it for a long time. I'd have hated to have had to toss it just because of a simple part like a cord. Fortunately a repair cord was available.
I think that the tool manufacturers should be very careful about this. Unlike the sited example of consumer electronics, models don't change all that fast and some of the tools sold to tradesmen and hobbyists alike are very expensive and worthy of repair. There's also the matter of brand loyalty. While I may not buy a PC example in every category, my present experience makes them the starting point when I'm looking for a new tool. In one category, I've got multiples (routers) And even if I choose a different brand, I'm buying "top shelf" stuff. DeWalt, Bosch, Milwaukee, Makita, etc, etc.
Why buy the "best" if repair isn't available? Surely they make more profit on a PC router than a B&D router! Wouldn't they want to protect that?
Interesting thought. California's laws and regulations are rapidly making it too expensive to do business in or with California. I'm surprised that my company still has a presence in California given the cost of living (I've hired people from one of our divisions in California who were looking to get out because they were tired of living like college students with roomates and in apartments because they couldn't afford housing) as well as the cost of complying with all of the regulations in California, especially when we are so concerned about overhead costs.
However, I wonder if those laws and regulations apply to goods imported from Mexico. Say someone were to set up a business just across the border exporting that type of goods to Californians, would the same laws apply? How would they be enforced since states have no authority to regulate interstate or foreign commerce. An opportunity indeed for someone.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
I hadn't thought of Mexico, but that's even better. What I was thinking of was Arizona, Nevada and Oregon. Assuming of course, that their laws were less restrictive than California's.
That's OK, Art - I figured as much. My point was simply that Unisaws and DJ-20s now seem to be looked upon as Consumer Products - with all the evil that it entails. And I didn't just spend a wad on a Unisaw so that it could become obsolete in 7 years - or 20 for that matter.
That's one reason I got away from electronics in general. :-\
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.