Dedicated Stair builders?

[Jay Pique]

Anyone here build stairs for a living?

JP

[Woodsy]

I have and am trying to start up a new shop to do exactly that. Prebuilt box stairs as well as return style stairways.

Woodsy

[Jay Pique]

Good luck! Are there any books that you recommend? I've been poking around amazon, but the reviews are pretty limited. Right now I'm just looking for a basic primer; something that will familiarize me with the terminology and the process. (I'm not building any staircases any time soon...that I know of.)

JP

[Joe Bemier]

I build custom stairs and every-so-often so straight finish as well....for a living

[Jay Pique]

The stair guy where I work just left, so I figured I'd read up on it a bit. Any books you'd recommend? "A Place of My Own", maybe?

JP

[Ross Hebeisen]

i have milled dried and pre-fabed custom components risers, bookmatched skirt boards, and treads. infact we have a buisness named treadmill, we call it that because it keeps us busy but won't take us any place. har har ross

[Mike O.]

Jay, you might have a look at some of the stair part manufacturer sites.

is one that will give you some general info about parts and some installation tips. They also have an installation book for about $13 but I can't vouch for it's usefulness.

Fitts also has an online site

and you can download their installation manual if you register. It is free.

Mike O.

[Jay Pique]

Ignore the last question - I thought you were a different Joe.

[Joe Bemier]

Good idea. If you are a carpenter, you can trim stairs. The only difference between stairs and most other finish work is that they require a great deal of forethought and planning. There is nothing magical about a stair builders work except having patience.

I will not trim stairs unless I have framed them or I know the framer and we work out details. The framing is so critical esp in complex jobs.

If you don't mind - what do you do now? Are you a finish carpenter. What type of company do you work for? What kinds of stair work is typical?

J

[Jay Pique]

Joe, check your email. JP

[Woodsy]

Coffman's books are extremely useful so far a assembling the balustrade system. Tips for cutting and fitting rail fittings, basic stuff regarding pitch blocks and setting newel posts is excellent. I don't entirely agree with the stair building section of their how to book, but that's just a personal thing. Using framing material for sub stringers is a sure ticket to a squeeky stairway.

OUCH!

Woodsy

[Joe Bemier]

Hi JP - No new mail....?

[Jay Pique]

I sent another, if still no love check your spam filters.

JP

[Ken Muldrew]

Hi Joe, A couple of weeks ago I asked for some advice on a stair railing (and gave an unfortunately poor picture as a means of describing my predicament). You replied that I had avoided the usual sequence with this sort of work. That wasn't surprising because, a) I don't know the usual sequence and, b) Just about everything in this house is done in an odd sequence (my brother and I are building everything in our spare time but we get a lot of pressure from family who want to use the cabin for recreational purposes and so demand certain comforts). I wonder if you could elaborate on the sequence that the pros use. Below is a link to a better picture to hopefully refresh your memory.

Muldrew [e-mail] (remove all letters after y in the alphabet)

[Joe Bemier]

Hey, you were right....it was in the Junk Folder....all set now.

J

[Joe Bemier]

Hello Ken,

Yes, I recall that staieway although I believe the shot was from a different perspective - facing the stairs IIRC. Anyway, all stairways are unique and there can never be any absolute right or wrong. However, having said that, there is a standard process that falls into play for many jobs. The sequence I will detail below is for stairs of your style and configuration - other types might vary.

1) Set Newel Posts 2) Lay on Stringers/Skirts (join these into the Newels) Your stairs have a first section of "Open Riser" on the right side and closed riser on the left side. Typically, the right side would use 45' angle cuts between riser and Skirt, while the left side would use a closed "Insert Riser/Skirt. The second section after the landing has a cantilevered wall on the right that would require some thinking I guess. If you take a pic I would be happy to help. 3) Set the Risers 4) Lay the Treads 5) Add molding under Tread overhang 6) Attach railings 7) Add Balusters/Spindles.

Each step above has many small rules and guidelines that are too lengthy and involved to detail here. As I recall, your stairs have the Framing Stringer laid in w/o cutouts and this will be a probelm to trim. However, not impossible. The fact that you have put up the railings before trimming some critical parts does not mean you cannot go forward it just means you will be handicapped in doing the work. As I mentioend earlier, if you want more advice, please post more pics - different angels.

In any event good luck!

J

[Ken Muldrew]

Here are more pictures, although they don't show much detail of the construction:

stairs were factory made (that saved us a lot of time but denied us the opportunity of building stairs). It would have been nice to put down the maple on the treads and trim the risers and insides/caps of the stringers before putting up the railing but with small children about we decided that the extra difficulty of putting up the railing first was the better tradeoff. A built-in bookshelf is going into the recess on the wall behind the stairs (both below and above the joist pocket that breaks up the wall, although above will be a stepped bookshelf so that we don't need a ladder to use it). The front walls will have drywall patches put in to the level of the stringers with a maple cap put on top. The drywall will cover the open triangles where the newel posts are attached.

The way I did the stair railing was the following. I first attached and plumbed the newel posts at both top and bottom. Then I clamped the three rails to the posts in the proper positions and marked out the cuts. The rails were made of 5/4 maple and I left 1" long tenons that were 3/4" x 3". The spindles (from 4/4" maple) were put in with 2 dowels per joint. Then the rail complex was clamped against the newel posts and the mortices marked. I then took the posts down and chopped out the mortices, glued the rails into the posts, and then bolted the posts back in place with the rails intact.

This was the naive sequence of an amateur (and novice) furniture maker. Using screws to attach both the spindles and the rails could have made things go much easier, but that didn't really seem like a good option at the time (but now looking at how close the bottom rail is to the stringer I think some plugs would have been almost unnoticeable down there).

Our current plan is to trim the risers and insides of the stringers and put down wood on the stairs. Then we'll patch up the drywall on the outer walls and then cap the stringers. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Ken Muldrew [e-mail] (remove all letters after y in the alphabet)

[Joe Bemier]

Ken - Sounds like you did a good job putting things together and like I said before there really are not any absolutes in stair building - except local codes, etc. Anyway, it sounds like you have decent solutions for the go forward.

I would suggest however that you consider maple instead of drywall on the other side of the Stringers. Not only will this make the "cap wider and more substantial, it will also bring better balance to the profile of the stairway. I have doctored up one of your images to explain what I mean.. Of course this means more stock and expense but I think it would be worth it if you can swing it.

J

[Mike Marlow]

Hey Joe - the binaries group (alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking) is the place to post pics. Text only here.

[Ken Muldrew]

Thanks Joe, I like the idea of framing the stairway with maple. I'm sure we can swing it and I don't think it will take much to convince my brother to go for it (he wasn't too keen on doing any more drywall). I really appreciate your advice.

Ken Muldrew [e-mail] (remove all letters after y in the alphabet)