Decline in craftsmanship

Here's an interesting piece found in the online New York Times equating the business practices at HD to the general decline in craftsmanship in our country:

formatting link

Reply to
Gramp's shop
Loading thread data ...

business practices at HD to the general decline in craftsmanship in our country:

formatting link
It was outsourced - to China.

Reply to
Richard

business practices at HD to the general decline in craftsmanship in our country:

Sometime in about the 60's or 70's, society decided that blue collar work was not as good as white collar and professions where you did not do that manual labor. College was more affordable and Dad, who worked on the line an a factory, was able to send one of his kids off to college.

Technology was starting to boom. Hey kids, become a computer programmer and you'll never have to clean under your fingernails again. Make lots more money than dad ever did down at the mill.

Cameras, stereo systems, Pong, and a Commodore 20 became affordable and it was imported, mostly from Japan. Big box store replaced the corner store and offered discounts. We like discounts. Oh, if I send my manufacturing off shore, I can offer discounts and sell cheaper too. Yay, now we get all that new technology cheaper than ever.

We want cheap. We demand cheap.

Hey, why is that factory torn down and another shopping mall going up? Great, it will have a big store that sells stuff from China.

Need a house? 0% down and low interest for the first five years. Sure, you can afford it and can re-finance later.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

business practices at HD to the general decline in craftsmanship in our country:

formatting link
It's an interesting article, but it just causes me to worry a bit more about our country in general. I've always found it strange that our "popular culture" gets away with being so much at odds with our nation's real needs. I guess we have a very successul entertainment industry.

How will our nation cope with an apparently declining middle class? Thinking it through, there is plenty to be concerned about.

As I've said here before, to me it seems that the major political parties stand by their interests selfishly. This just seems to add more fuel to the problem above. For instance, wealthy people may not wish to help pay for better public schools.

I've written this message at least 3 times so far, so I'm going to have to finish for now and move on, and maybe come back if I'm somehow persuaded. In the meantime, Go USA! : )

Bill

Reply to
Bill

business practices at HD to the general decline in craftsmanship in our country:

Hmm, am I wrong, or did Home Depot become ubiquitous sometime after the '60s or '70s?

Perhaps college should be made more affordable. Perhaps professors should actually teach and student loans should be abolished (or at least greatly reduced)? Maybe get rid of scholarships, too.

We also demand good, if not cheap. That's something that went missing in the '70s and '80s.

Money is just about free now. What's that got us?

Reply to
krw

business practices at HD to the general decline in craftsmanship in our country:

formatting link
>>>It's an interesting article, but it just causes me to worry a bit more

The 60s hippies have been in control for some time. What do you expect?

The middle class can't exist in the US without the entrepreneur class. You know, those people who "didn't do it themselves".

They certainly don't want to pay for worse ones. ...and that's what we're getting. Most I know on the right are quite at ease with the idea of "charter schools" and they aren't free.

Reply to
krw

business practices at HD to the general decline in craftsmanship in our country:

formatting link
>>> Remember that quote in Pogo "we have met the enemy and it is us". >>

What do you think they are doing? Times have already changed.

and student loans should be abolished (or at least greatly

May as well get rid of auto financing while you're at it. And mortgages too--they are evil!

If you wanted to improve the economics, you might have colleges screen students and turn away one they expect might not be as competitive following graduation. But that would not be very democratic or popular. However, that is similar to the way things are done in China, I believe.

Maybe students should talk to an advisor (perhaps mom or dad?) before they choose a college and a major? All 18 year-olds respect the opinions of their parents, don't they? Caveat emptor.

Reply to
Bill

business practices at HD to the general decline in craftsmanship in our country:

formatting link
>>>>>> It's an interesting article, but it just causes me to worry a bit more

I expect a government "for the people". When I was a little kid I expected people to exhibit restraint/discipline and to work hard for their own best interests and to share with others in need. I expected everyone would want to look out for the environment. I was naive in some ways.

Reply to
Bill

" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I think we should emphasize ability more. Guess what, I'd like to make education more affordable. For anyone who can show ability and dedication to persevere. Invest in talent. Do reward good students, good teachers and good researchers. But set limits.

We should discourage instant gratification ...

Bankers are (wrongly, IMO) in it for the profit that loans give NOW. Somehow a focus on more long term yields, away from short term results, is needed. People should qualify for the loans they take out. Of course that gives the problem of the artrist-type with a good idea, but no track record (just an example). I don't know how to solve that. Obviously I would not want to get blamed for somone's inabaility to get financing because he is from a ghetto background with no track record ...

Reply to
Han

The Vietnam was could be avoided if you were in school to be come a teacher. Some of those teachers became administrators. The results of that are showing too.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

Cream rises to the top. Our nation has amply proved that higher education for the mediocre simply fosters further mediocrity.

Besides, you have to be careful how you spend other peoples money ... if it hadn't been for the .001% wealthy and powerful at the time, you would have never hear d of either Da Vinci or Michelangelo.

Reply to
Swingman

formatting link
>>>>> It's an interesting article, but it just causes me to worry a bit more

In order to be at peace with the current cultural state of affairs, you have to finally accept that the simpleton majority deserve exactly what they bring upon themselves.

Who are they, you say?

Simply chose to spend a few minutes driving any urban freeway in the country ... you cant' miss them ... just consider yourself lucky if the miss you.

Reply to
Swingman

business practices at HD to the general decline in craftsmanship in our country:

formatting link
>>>>> Remember that quote in Pogo "we have met the enemy and it is us". >>>

Research. Writing proposals for research.

...and I thought you wanted to middle class to be stronger. Oh, well.

Following graduation? How about turning away those who can't even get there without dumbing down the entire system? Ramedeal reading in college?

Perhaps require an "employment 101" course. Though, if effective, it would dry up a lot of departments. The faculty wouldn't allow that to happen.

Reply to
krw

Absolutely, but what do you do with the Ancient South American Languanges department?

OK, mostly. What limits?

Making college more affordable can easily start with getting rid of the bloat. Evernotice the construction going on at the major universities?

OK. I'm all ears.

Huh! Who wudda thought that bankers were in business to make money.

They're still making 30 year mortgages. Isn't that long enough? OTOH, Fannie and Freddie are there to take them off their hands - instantly (mine didn't even make the first mortgage payment).

That's not a good thing? I though you _wanted_ people to have to qualify for loans? An "artrist-type" can't work their way up?

Why? Minorities are incapable of working their way up? ...or you just don't want the *blame*?

Reply to
krw

business practices at HD to the general decline in craftsmanship in our country:

formatting link
>>>>>>>>> It's an interesting article, but it just causes me to worry a bit more

I'd say that nothing's changed.

Reply to
krw

" snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Wow, you did get my drift! liberal, but fiscally responsible. And art for the sake of art is just fine, whether or not dead or almost dead languages are involved. Universities aren't trade schools. I retired in large part because of the ridiculous bloated bureaucracy that required me to spend almost all my time with requirements, certifications and nonsense reports, rather than the research I was being paid to do. But doing away with those things needs to mean that people who commit fraud get really serious punishment, rather than just being banned for 5 years of receiving federal funds.

Indeed I don't want to be blamed for denying minorities their rights. How to exactly balance the individual's right to help out of a previously disadvantaged situation and the right of society for productively using their resources, is difficult .

Reply to
Han

business practices at HD to the general decline in craftsmanship in our country:

formatting link
time I see "This Old House" on PBS, with the idiotic "elbow grease" commercial at the beginning, that point is driven home ...

Reply to
Swingman

The Chinese system of climbing the academic ladder is based on ferocious mass and massive competition.

The stress of that competition weeds out the weaklings and those less likely to survive the competition in higher education.

I think they probably lose a lot of genius to the meat grinder of that competition.

Reply to
phorbin

Let's back up a minute. A lot of the problem is not the teachers. A lot is parents that think the teachers are baby sitters and surrogate parents.

Many don't teach their kids manners. Many don't demand grades from their kids. There was a woman on TV who was doing her kids homework so that the kid could socialize more...

The other part of the problem with schools is the curiculum has been forced to be fair for everyone. Teach everything that doesn't pertain to the 3 Rs... The priorities should be what they were long ago.. Reading, Writting and Arithmetic.. And Sciences, computers, and social studies.. period.

You can blame that on the stupid legislators... Most of whom probably did poorly in school. Add many stupid requirements in and you have a curriculum that can't focus enough of what it should..

Then add stupid admins who are looking for big pay days and ... well theses people are clueless for the most part.

Reply to
tiredofspam

the business practices at HD to the general decline in craftsmanship in our country:

formatting link
>>>>>>> Remember that quote in Pogo "we have met the enemy and it is us". >>>>

That was an example of hyperbole--exaggerating your suggesting that student loans and scholarships should be abolished!

Oh, well.

I said "screen"! That means before admitting students. Phoenix, the online university, is an example of a fraud (from what I've heard).

How about turning away those who can't even get there

Reply to
Bill

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.