Dealer suggests Shopfox over General TS

I called a dealer (Utter Guys -- Florida) today to (likely) place an order for the General International 50-260 left tilt table saw. He told me it was on special for $1199 (a very good price), but would not ship till mid May when they get shipment.
In the meantime, he suggested I strongly consider the Shopfox W1677EXT1 instead. He said it was a better machine for slightly less money. (I'm sure he also has it in stock).
There is so little user reports that I can find on either of these machines. I was planning to get the General because I have only heard good things (apart from manual and setup hassles) about any General TS. But the dealer has given me pause....
Are there any anecdotes which might shed some light on a comparison, or recommendation, between these two machines?
/rick.
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"RickS" <rick --dot-- s --at-- comcast.net> wrote in message

I've not see either one, but. . . . . The General International is the imported (non-Canadian) model and the Shop Fox is the retail store model of Grizzly. If you'd buy a Grizzly, this may be a good deal. Ed
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I've got the grizzly catalog here...They've got a nice left-tilter for less than $900 (sans shipping).
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The General is the better name. If the price is close, I'd go with the General.
Rob
"RickS" <rick --dot-- s --at-- comcast.net> wrote in message

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Rob wrote:

IIRC there are two different lines, General which is Canadian made and General International which is an imported Asian product.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
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The price is close ($50 more for GI).
I have now seen a Shopfox, live and up close, at a local dealer (who alas does not carry General/GI). It lacked some fit & finish qualities, but that may only reflect the way the guy at the back of the retailer puts them together. I also did not think the SF fence was nearly as sturdy as the Biesemeyer (which the GI supposedly provides a very good clone of).
/rick.

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On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:11:53 -0400, "RickS" <rick --dot-- s --at-- comcast.net> wrote:

Be careful.
When I bought my General 650, Utterguys had a great price on their web site. I asked a local guy to price match them, a service they advertise. Upon verification, Utterguys couldn't seem to come up with a saw to sell, or an exact date when they would have one, and the web price changed while the local guy was trying to verify it.
I had only checked with Utterguys as I had FREE northbound truck space coming my way and would have had the truck pick the saw up.
I paid the local guy's price and have been happy ever since.
It was hinted that this had happened before, with Utterguys, with the exact same outcome.
Barry
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Hmmn. I think I will. Thanks for the heads up.
What you say could definitely be what I experienced today: i.e. bait and switch. I was somewhat surprised that the dealer thought the Shopfox was a better machine than the GI.... I wonder which has the better profit?
Interestingly, the price for the 260 quoted to me on the phone was $100 better than they publish on the Web.
By the way, how do you like your 650?
I have been looking longingly at the General 650 while comparing it to the GI 260. Due to wife factor, I was heading toward the 260, as I could not find enough excuses for spending 50% more on the 650. Perhaps you have some good ones that I haven't considered/tried/used yet?
/rick
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On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:30:30 -0400, "RickS" <rick --dot-- s --at-- comcast.net> wrote:

My friend that owns a bicycle shop has a saying: "Everything we don't have is on sale!" <G>

I love the saw, the HTC "custom" mobile base could be a bit stiffer.
I personally haven't fingered either the GI or the Shop Fox, so I can't comment on either.
Barry
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I have a Shop Fox eight inch jointer, a 20 inch planer, and a 2 HP shaper. they are all excellent machines and fit and finish are better than Grizzly, I would recommend them to anyone. I have a friend who recently bought one of the SF 20 inch planers with a spiral cutterhead and it produces a board which is almost ready to finish but I can do a lot of sanding for a thousand dollars. Shop Fox is very good equipment and their support is excellent. All of the above were purchased from Utter Guys and they are good people but don't expect an invoice-ever.
All of that said, I also have a Uni Saw and wouldn't consider anything else. I've never owned a better machine
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On 30 Apr 2004 06:25:48 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@grandecom.net (WillaimC) wrote:

You mean to say that you didn't a receipt or some other proof of purchase with any of your Utterguys purchases?
That's really weird.
Barry
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Just took delivery of the General 650. Set up absolutely sucked - the manual is a joke. That said, once set up - the saw is wonderful. I've ranted about it on other posts. Worth the wait, worth the money. I never wanted to look back and say - "I wish I would have spent a few hundred more for..."
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On 1 May 2004 18:11:45 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (MN Guy) wrote:

May I ask who you got it from? Also, how many places did you get prices from? It's been my observation from the few places I've checked that the price seems pretty consistent amongst them; was that your experience?
I'm hoping that my mechanical aptitude will overcome any setup suckage. Was that your hope, too, or were you blindsided?
Thanks.
- - LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
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On Sun, 02 May 2004 03:36:41 +0100, LRod

My 650 was up and running in under 3 hours, 2 1/2 of which was installing the fence and table board. The manual does leave much to be desired.
When installing the fence, if things don't fit, take a step back and start over. The rails are drilled for many different saws, and finding the correct holes was not intuitive.
When you get the saw, I'll get you my phone number via your web site. Maybe I can help if you get hung up.
Barry
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That's the way I am starting to look at it now, too. SWMBO (I'm new here -- I assume this is correct usage) is even becoming convinced.
Buying the real General (as opposed to the GI) was my longing, but the higher price was dissuading me. I still don't exactly know all the differences between them (since I have not physically seen either), but for whatever reason, the 50% premium (for the 650 over the GI 50-260) is becoming justified. Call it a warm and fuzzy feeling.
My closest General dealer is 300 miles away. If I pull the trigger, I will plan a family weekender to coincide with picking up the saw. I just hope the boxes for the unit will fit into a Nissan Quest (with all but one of the rear seats -- for my baby son -- folded flat).
/rick
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On Mon, 3 May 2004 12:24:34 -0400, "RickS" <rick --dot-- s --at-- comcast.net> wrote:

It may or may not.
The saw proper comes as ONE almost fully assembled 4-500 pound unit The wings are attached, and the saw is bolted to a fully crated pallet, measuring about 44" x 44", with a box containing the guard, blade, etc... enclosed. Three more boxes contain the fence, table board, and fence rails. The rail box is about 7 feet long and the table board box is about 40 x 30.. The optional HTC mobile base comes mostly assembled in a 6 foot plus by 3 foot by 8 inch box.
Does your Quest have a hitch? I brought mine home with the saw crate securely ratchet strapped on an open 4x8 foot utility trailer, with all of the boxes inside my Subaru Outback tow vehicle. The dealer put the pallet on the trailer with a forklift.
I WOULD NOT drive with my family in a minivan with the saw not properly secured. An attempted evasive maneuver might possibly kill all of you, if the saw moved.
You should also be aware that it took four guys to maneuver the main saw section through a 40" door into the shop, as you can't lift it by the wings.
Barry
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According to the sizes you most graciously provided, it should all fit in the van. Perhaps the next question will be of the dealer: will they load the big one in the back of the van for me.

Thank you. This is a valid concern. The Quest has a couple of pretty hefty looking hooks on the cargo area floor near the body sides, which should suffice to strap in and prevent the saw from moving forward into the passenger area (all bets being off in a head-on collision). Even then, the weight will add significantly to lateral momentum which may promote a rollover from an otherwise harmless "swerve". Food for thought.... I am liking the trailer idea, even though I would have to add a hitch.

I am already lining 'em up.... Fortunately, the unit can simply come in through the garage door.
Barry... I very much appreciate your (and others!) info, advice and concerns in this thread...
/rick.
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On Mon, 3 May 2004 18:30:27 -0400, "RickS" <rick --dot-- s --at-- comcast.net> wrote:

The dealer should at least have a pallet jack, many have fork lifts.

I was thinking of things shifting around from side to side. I wouldn't want to get hit head-on towing the trailer, either. <G>

Once you get it, email me @ nospam @ snet . net, and you can call or email me if I can help you get it assembled. Sometimes, even a digital photo of a certain assembly, already assembled, can be a big help when you're holding a bunch of parts.
Barry
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