My balls are fine, thank you. <g> I perpetuate no myths.
Good Grief, shoot the messenger. I am only reporting facts.
You will notice that I never told anyone to ground their DC system.
This stupid thread started (again) over one mention of metal pipe
replacing grounding the wire that some install on their PVC systems.
Several companies sell DC ground kits to (IYO) misguided individuals.
Fire codes in some localities require it in commercial installs.
Nothing here should be construed as MY recommending anything.
As for me, I use conductive tubing, because I hate the static
attraction that generic plastics generate.
Have a Happy Holiday and Peaceful New Year, Dude.
I believe that is what you think you are doing. But, for example,
can lead to confusion. It sounds like you are saying that some fire codes
require commercial installations of PVC ductwork to be grounded.
AFAIK, fire codes that require grounded ductwork in commercial
installations also require the ductwork itself to be metal (or at the
very least, conductive). I have never heard of, and seriously doubt the
existence of any code that requires non-conductive ductwork to be
grounded. It just doesn't make any sense because it is impossible to
"ground" an insulator.
Yes, metal is *supposed* to be used in commercial installs.
But it IS possible to reduce and dissipate accumulated charges in PCV
through surface leakage so that large discharges to metal objects is
all but eliminated. Of course you can't "ground" PVC in the classic
sense, it is an insulator. But in reality, all materials conduct
electricity to some extent, especially in high humidity conditions,
their resistance is just *extremely* high.
Well anyway, this thread is getting quite tedious. WAY too much grief
over installing $3 worth of wire. Especially considering that the
negative consequences of doing so are nil. Too bad people aren't more
interested in the direction our economy or world politics is headed.
Folks, do what you want, believe what you want.
I'll stick to my conductive, impregnated plastic pipe and enjoy the
peace of mind of knowing that when I brush against a pipe, I'm not
going to get zapped by static discharge - which is my primary concern.
And maybe, somewhere deep down inside, I may even get some comfort in
knowing that I may also avoid that 1 in 1,000,000 chance that my DC is
going to catch fire. The universe is a cruel and chaotic place. <g>
Two more points to consider. First, at least in this forum, emotion
usually enjoys equal prominence on both sides of the debate. OTOH, the
research and analysis conducted by some who discourage PVC "grounding" is
objectively superior to that done by any who condone it.
And second, the negative consequences may not be insignificant, owing to
the sizes of the probabilities involved. The probability of a dust
explosion ignited by static discharge from PVC piping is vanishingly
small. However, that tiny probability is increased by adding a grounded
conductor on the outside of the pipe. Installing an internal conductor or
screws through the piping have relatively substantial negative
consequences as well. So, the likelihood of some type of undesirable
incident is probably greater -- by a statistically significant margin --
when any of these things are installed.
You haven't followed any of the political discussions around here, have
The most complete treatise on this subject I have seen is located at
This article was summarized in an issue of FWW but what is located
here is much more complete. Read it and then decide for yourself
whether to use PVC and whether grounding is worhtwhile.
Heh heh...that's an easy one:
When the "PVS DC grounding" proponents start doing serious research about
dust ignition points, static discharge and grounding, one of two
1) They can't build a good argument, so they give up arguing - but still
believe they are right.
2) They become "PVS DC grounding" opponents
You mean, you didn't write what you wrote a couple/few
messages up? Bring Sybil back to the keyboard, I want to
ask her something.
Facts? Please include foot notes.
So again, why do you feel there is a need for a grounding
wire? Grain storage in my hobby shop dust collector?
And again, why do I need the metal ducting you recommended?
There you go. A true statement of a true fact and from
everything factual that has been gathered on the subject the
only real reason to choose metal over plastic. OK, to be
fair there are other reasons. :-)
A'yup, and you and urine also.
UA100, who is real sorry for you that you felt you needed to
state what you stated and you can't remeber what you said
but what the hell, it's been real fun and the sport is
Keeter, you forgot to tell me you are from MO.
Only believe what you see with your own eyes? Never learned anything by
reading or listening to others? A fair amount of skepticism is fine, but
you pretty much are calling folks liars when you refer to someone as a
Now I've given you reason to get back to busting my chops... :)
Unisaw A100 wrote:
I have to needle him once in a while, Greg, to see if he'll post either
a series of blank replies for a couple of days, or his infamous two word
reply to me, "Bad Monkey", dazzling us all with his originality. A
couple of times I mimicked his style and he came up with the well worn
phrase of our youth: "monkey see, monkey do". That's why I've suggested
to him time and time again to hire some new writers. :)
OK - My last words on the subject. Form your own conclusions.
(Rhetorical statement for some...) Results of a 10 minute search.
And not from some self-appointed expert with a misquoted web site.
In this world, most anything is possible-only a fool claims otherwise.
GA Tech studied the factors behind explosions in dust collection
facilities in 2002, and determined that 3 of 175 were caused by static
discharge - more than defective motors and electrical panels.
Wood shop DC explosion and fire at school
Exploding DC Ducts in Woodshop
See Post by David Snow
Explosion in DC in MFG
General Info on dust/ignition
Grounding of Dust Collectors and ducts/plastic/static producing parts
See Section 188.8.131.52
As far as I'm concerned, $3 is cheap insurance against these sorts of
things - in addition to the reduction in unpleasant static discharge
to your person.
Wait! Is it? Call me a skeptic but it seems I read this
And in which of these was PVC cited as the culprit?
Agreed when you cite static discharge.
Probably not given your track record to date.
Thanks, but not a subject I *really* wanted to get involved it, nor a
fervent believer in. As I mentioned, just playing devil's advocate
for another side for the coin - one in which there in no *real*
undisputable scientific evidence to support either side. Life is
chaotic - I believe anything can happen, if circumstances permit.
Many of the discussions here devolve into bouts of name calling and
personal attacks - often fairly quickly. IMHO, not a good way to
present either side of a debate.
Now don't get me started on left tilt vs. right tilt. <g>
I don't get it. I can understand wanting a left and a right, and it
certainly makes sense to have two of each (set up for rip and crosscut),
but I don't see what you're going to do with the third of each. Do you
really cut that many dados?
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