Dateline Cochran, GA

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On 5/17/2014 2:21 PM, Swingman wrote:

Yes. And you had a vessel that will change temperatures more slowly as it absorbed the heat from the liquid. Styrofoam cups like the ones MD uses are designed to not absorb heat rather to contain the heat.

I think the problem here is that your sensor "spot" focused on the water from the faucet and or coffee maker was in a disrupted stream. I I don't think that the spot focus was always hitting water rather an airreated water air mix and you were probably getting some type of average.

Yes, the surface temp is not going to be cooler or hotter than other points. However the surface whether it be the bottom or top is where the transference of heat is going to take place which ever direction it is transferring in. In this case the transference of the heat is from the liquid top surface to the air which will have a cooling effect. Below the surface the temperature is ever changing and more so when exposed to different temp surfaces. The surface reading, where the heat is escaping to a much cooler atmosphere, is going to be cooler.
Did you look at my probe readings??? ;~)
I got much closer to predicted/expected temp readings using the probe away from the outer surface.
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On 5/17/2014 1:47 PM, Leon wrote:

Depends upon where you are planning on sticking it? LOL!
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On 5/17/2014 2:31 PM, Swingman wrote:

where ever you like! LOL. Ill bring it. You may gave a dysfunctional coffee maker.
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On 5/17/2014 2:55 PM, Leon wrote:

Please don't ... bad enough getting our asses whipped with estrogen fueled dominoes, AND having to run scientific experiments on top of that. Sheeeeesh!!
ITMT, just enjoying the arguing while waiting for that inevitable ass whipping. ;)
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On 5/17/2014 3:02 PM, Swingman wrote:

I was thinking to my self earlier, but was was interrupted by a convoy of 18 wheelers headed south from here, I wonder how much Karl was getting done on the cabinets this after noon while yielding his mighty sword at the keyboard?
Kim got home 30 minutes ago and needed help bringing in groceries. I opened the trunk of her car and the mystery of where the trucks were headed was solved. Kroger needed to be restocked.
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On 5/17/2014 3:50 PM, Leon wrote:

Worked hard all week, It's Saturday, went on strike.
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On 5/17/2014 3:52 PM, Swingman wrote:

Probably that 2 hour search for room tired you all out. ;~)
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On 5/17/2014 3:54 PM, Leon wrote:

Just the thought of it...
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Yup, and so am I apparently. I guess the biggest fault here wasn't that McDonalds was serving hot coffee, but the fact that they didn't accede to here original claims for compensation.
Guess they were afraid of the torrent of new claims that would follow. So, either way, they were going to have to pay. That means, that you're right, there coffee was too hot. Not INHO that it was undrinkable, but that it's hotness left them open for being sued. :)
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On Fri, 16 May 2014 12:12:43 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

Gaining?
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message wrote:

Let me see...
1. McDonalds wants their coffee to be really, REALLY hot. Undrinkably hot.
2. They serve it in a squishy styrofoam cup.
3. They put a lid on that cup (maybe just for take out, don't know, I don't go to McDonalds)
4. In order to drink the undrinkably hot coffee, one has to remove the top. Which is what she was trying to do.
McDonalds knows all about #1 - #3 or - if they don't - they are incredibly stupid. Not to hard to foretell what happened to her. It seems to me that McD just doesn't give a rat's ass which is one reason I don't go there (the main reason is that their burgers suck, ditto BurgerKing).
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On 5/16/2014 1:39 PM, dadiOH wrote:

Define undrinkably hot. Would you serve a drink to a five year old at the same temperature that you might drink it?

Do you often place hot liquids served in squishy styrofoam cup between your legs to open them?

This is not directed at you. I avoid both establishment too, not because of the temperature of their products but because the products them selves long term are more harmful than any thing else.
Most wood working tool manufacturers turned down the opportunity to sell a safer saw and continue to sell saws that are more dangerous to operate than other brands. Do they not give a rat's ass about our safety should we attempt to use them in an unsafe manner? ;~)
There seems to be a double standard going on. Some of us think that the temperature of hot coffee should be better regulated and that the government getting involved to prosecute the provider is OK.
So does that mean that we don't want the government to do something to protect us to begin with, SawStop, and that we would rather sue later if we are harmed doing something that we should not have been doing in the first place, opening hot coffee between our legs?
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On 5/17/2014 9:22 AM, Leon wrote:

??
Bzzzztt .... This was a _civil_ lawsuit.
No "government involvement" at all, and none remotely discussed, anticipated or ever even suggested.
Once again, what any of us, including our resident trolls, consider is a proper "serving temperature for coffee is totally irrelevant to the reality of the situation.
When you lose a _civil_ lawsuit in front of a jury of your peers and based on presented facts of questionable business practices, you change those questionable business practices.
As has happened countless times to protect consumers, our CIVIL legal system punished a questionable, and provably injurious, business practice, which is exactly what it was designed to do.
End of story...
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On 5/17/2014 11:37 AM, Swingman wrote:

I know, tomato, tomaato.... The government was still involved in allowing the proceedings.
Sorry, I should have said that the government run court room oversaw the proceedings brought to it and a government appointed judge guided those proceedings according to law.

Was the court room a private building or a public government building? Was the judge that overruled some of the damages and over saw the proceedings according to law hired by the attorneys or appointed by a government entity?
I guess the point I am trying to make here is that many sided with the lady that did not insure against spilling coffee on herself and most of those have admitted that they don't care for McDonald's and or McDonald's doesn't give a rat's ass about the consumers safety.
On a similar point a lot of people like Ryobi, many here promote their good experiences with the product. I used to have a great AP-10 Ryobi planer. When the flooring guy cut his digit off because he was not careful, the fact that he won the suite against Ryobi for his own carelessness was about the most ridiculous thing any of us had heard of.
Now if the same guy had overridden the safety stop and done the same with the SawStop i think many here may have sided with the idiot because of the past tactics used by SawStop to bring their product to market.

Yes you do, But where do you draw the line? Should restraints risk loosing 99.990% of their customers to protect against the possibility of the other .001% harming themselves?
If I burned my self by spilling coffee made in my correctly operating coffee maker, sued the manufacturer, and won, would you expect for that manufacturer to recall your coffee maker and readjust it so that it no longer heated water hotter than a 130 degrees, which will cause 3rd degree burns, instead of the 187~192 degrees that it operates at now?

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Right. She was awarded $200K damages, $2.7 mil punitive, reduced by the judge to $160K and $480K respectively. McD made out like a bandit, only $640K instead of $2.9 mil. What they actually paid seems to be a secret but I'm betting it was way more than the $20K she wanted originally. Can you say, "Penny wise and pound foolish"? :)
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"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam* at comcast dot net> wrote in message

Maybe so but the best coffee I ever had in my life was at the Cafe de la parroquia in Veracruz, Mexico. Their coffee was made with steam - 212 + heat of conversion - on an Italian machine dating from 1870.
The home made coffee I prefer is made on a French press by pouring boiling water over the grounds.
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Right. Pour in the water, let it steep a moment or two, push the strainer down, pour into a room temperature cup. It would still be to hot for you and I if it were black but I add cold milk and that gets it OK. Used to drink coffee with just sugar but after I got hooked on lecheros - strong coffee and hot milk - in Mexico I started making coffee about double strength and adding milk.
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On 5/16/2014 5:37 PM, dadiOH wrote:

A neighbor from Brazil makes extra strong, freshly ground coffee and uses this:
http://chriskam5.mercadoshops.com.co/leche-en-polvo-venezolanas-la-campina-la-campesina-mas_4xJM
I've had plenty of coffee in a couple of trips around the globe and nothing compares.
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On Fri, 16 May 2014 17:24:17 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

...and like their customers want it.

Go figure, a drive-thru puts lids on served liquids. Who wudda thunk!

...and not a lot cheaper than places far better. We do go to McDs sometimes for breakfast when we're traveling, though.
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My wife mentioned that Starbucks would serve it hot but AFAIK, they're the only one that will. I can't stand Starbucks coffee, though.

No, I sure don't, however I don't see it being the company's business to protect dolts from themselves. It's an impossible task.

Which is where is *should* be.

I've never had more than 1st degree burns from any drinks. Of course, I don't put cups between my legs, sitting in a car, either. they invented these neat things called "cup holders". ;-)

Good. That's the way I like it.

700 people out of billions and billions served. Your point? How many people choked on the burgers or drown in the bathroom?

I agree. They shouldn't be serving coffee to infants. That *is* dumb.

People want to take it with them. Hence the "drive thru". They don't want it cold when they drink it.

McDs admitted that people are stupid. So?

They didn't tell people the obvious. So?

They admitted that they served what their customers demanded.

Life is dangerous and it never ends well. Get used to it.
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