Cyclone-style Dust Collectors.

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That first line is the comforting part, after that, it's all Greek (geek?) to me.. thanks!
Feliz Navidad
mac
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wrote:

That's normal. Most Physics formulas include greek letters. :-)
Puckdropper
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Exactly why I blanked out when folks tried to explain it.. My math skills are just about good enough to run a calculator..lol
mac
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Robatoy wrote:

Three months ago, I put in a JDS 3100ck.
I wish I went to a cyclone years ago. Easy to empty, fantastic performance, and a canister filter from the get go. I've emptied ~ 200 gallons of material from the drum and I'm still on the original bag under the filter. This unit has a filter beater that runs on a timer each time the DC is shut down. It seems to work very well.
Without my ceiling height limitation, you can probably get a similar performing unit for a few hundred bucks less than my unit, as there is lots of competition.
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One way is to use a 55 gallon drum. The lid has two portals. Inlet and outlet. The outlet goes to the bag system. Between the two you bolt on or weld - a fence that extends 4-5 times the diameter of the hose. So the inlet is pulled in and dumps into the can. Lighter stuff continues on the way to the filter.
Have two barrels and one lid - never run out of room.
Naturally a nice one outside on the edge of the building that can dump into a truck or large bag in the truck would be nice and best.
Martin
Robatoy wrote:

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Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

What you have described is a poorly designed inefficient cyclone.
If you're DIYing and all ready have a good sized dust colletor, it doesn't cost all that much to beat together a real cyclone.

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You don't understand. The drum is a pre-dump of big stuff so the smaller stuff continues and doesn't get swamped with everything the shop can give it.
Martin
J. Clarke wrote:

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Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

I had that, it's like comparing my single engine C182 to a Gulfstream. Without the can, it was my Beech 23, compared to my C182.
A real cyclone works so much better than a preseperator that it's not funny. The extra drum on a bag DC eats CFM, so the suction is much reduced.
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Robatoy wrote:

For a quick and dirty cyclone substitute for the lowest-dollar, take a look at a reasonable substitute.
http://dreamingofhawaii.com/workshop/cyclone.asp
It uses an existing dust extractor and provides much of the cyclone action without the cost. Still gotta empty the barrel, but the filter bag never got much in it after the barrel was hooked up...
--Rick
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<h2>Building a cyclone from a 55-gallon drum.</h2> Not everyone needs to have a full size, commercially produced cyclone to effectively separate the chips from the fine dust in their workshop. After looking at the comercially produced cyclones, and plans for building one that looked like the commercially produced units, I thought I'd try to build one in a much simpler manner. <br><br> This page shows an inexpensive cyclone I built from a 55 gallon drum (that was originally used to temporarily store Guava Juice). <br><br> The total out of pocket cost of this project, including the flexible hose was under twenty dollars. Your cost may vary depending upon what you already have on hand, and the price of supplies in your area. <br><br> <h3>My cost breakdown </h3>(costs in parenthesis were items already on hand): <ul> <li>The Drum with removable lid was $10 at a garage sale. If the top for your drum is already gone, you can substitute a plywood disk of appropriate size. A clamp to hold the top on isn't normally needed. <li>I had 3 feet of 4" PVC pipe left over from plumbing the dust extraction system ($2) <li>I also had a large tube of Caulking compound ($3). Siliconized white compound works for me. <li>New Metal Cutting Blade for the Sawzall cost $3 (because I only had wood ones on hand!) <li>Two 10-32 x 1/2 inch long screws, with washers, nuts and fender washers ($1) <li>3 feet of flexible hose (all metal aluminum dryer vent hose) ($4) <li>Beer ($5) </ul> <h3>Tools Required:</h3> <ul> <li>Electric Drill <li>Sawzall, jigsaw, or other portable reciprocating saw. <li>Caulking Gun </ul>
<b>Note: Click on any image to see a full size view in another window</b> <br> <A HREF="images/55gal-system.jpg" target="big"><IMG SRC="images/55gal-system.gif" widthd heightH>The system</A> <br> This is the 55 gallon cyclone connected to the dust extractor. The pipe running up the wall goes overhead and on to various tools such as saws, planer and lathes. <br><br> <A HREF="images/55gal-top.jpg" target="big"><IMG SRC="images/55gal-top.gif" widthd heightH>Top View</A> <br> This is a little closer view of the top of the unit. Note that the inlet is at a rather shallow angle, and the outlet (to the dust extractor) is the vertical pipe in the center. <br><br> <A HREF="images/55gal-under1.jpg" target="big"><IMG SRC="images/55gal-under1.gif" widthd heightH>Underside of Lid, first view.</A>
<br><br> <A HREF="images/55gal-under2.jpg" target="big"><IMG SRC="images/55gal-under2.gif" widthd heightH>Underside of Lid, at a slightly different angle.</A> <br><br> <h3>Instructions:</h3> <ol> <li>Cut two sections of PVC pipe about 18" long each. <br><br> <li>Place one in the center of the lid and draw around it to mark the hole to cut for the exhaust. <br><br> <li>Mark the slot that will be cut out for the inlet tube. This slot will be like a grossly elongated D. <br><br> If you have difficulty in visualizing the shape of this hole, just submerge one of the tubes in a pan of water at the angle you wish to use, and note the shape along the waterline. Draw this shape on the drum top, near the edge. You want to leave plenty of metal at the edge so you don't significantly reduce the strength of the top. Mark a line about two inches inside the straight part of the D. <br><br> <li>Drill a couple of holes near your marked line in each of the holes you need to cut out. This is so you can get the blade of the Sawzall (or jigsaw) though the metal to begin your cut. If you don't have some sort of portable reciprocating saw, I imagine you could drill holes all around the cut line and file or grind the edges, but I wouldn't want to think about how long this approach might take. <br><br> <li>Cut out the disc of metal at the Exhaust location. It really helps if you space the top from the floor on a couple of blocks, unless you want to buy more Sawzall blades. A fairly tight fit is good here, because the Exhaust tube is attached only by caulking... <br><br> <li>Cut out the D-shaped hunk of metal at the Inlet location. At the lowest point, where the tube will be inside the lid (corresponding to the flat part of the D shape) I cut the end of the scrap off, but left a tab about two inches long with a saw cut on each side. I enlarged the saw cuts so the tubing would fit over the tab. <br><br> The cuts don't need to be really exact. Any minor misadventures in guiding your saw can be hidden under caulking later. Try the fit of the tubes and cut another slice of metal as needed for a reasonable fit. <br><br> <li>Now that the hard and/or dangerous work is done, pop open a beer and take a break. People that don't like beer can subsitute any adult beverage of their choice. <br><br> <li>Bend the end of the tab of the inlet hole to a curve that will fit the inside of the tube, then drill and bolt the tube in place. While probably not necessary, this provides additional support for the inlet tube. <br><br> <li>Block the top up about four to six inches from the table or floor, and push the Exhaust tube through so one end rests on the table or floor. It should now look more or less like the pictures above. <br><br> <li> After locating the caulking gun, (why is it never where it's supposed to be?) load it up and caulk around the tubes on the upper side of the top. Note that the only thing holding the Exhaust tube in place is the caulking, so you will have to wait for the caulking to set up before you invert the top and caulk the underside. <br><br> <li>Finish your beverage or have another one. All you can do now is wait for the caulking to dry. <br><br> <li>After the caulking on the top is dry, invert the top and caulk the underside. When this is dry, you can plumb your new 55 gallon cyclone into the system. </ol>
After living with this system for awhile, I've found I can get additional suction (for longer runs of pipe) by removing the bag from my dust extractor (DE). The cyclone works well enough that there isn't any noticeable dust from the unit when running my planer, but I'd imagine that fine dust from sanding would require the filter bag. Typically, with the DE filter bag on, I get less than a half inch of dust in the bottom bag by the time the 55 gallon drum is nearly full. Note that as the drum gets within six inches or so of the top, you'll start sucking chips out of the exhaust and into the DE. <br><br> --Rick </font> <!-- End of main page content --> </td></tr> <tr><td colspan=2><HTML> <BODY> <!-- Begin Standard Footer --> <center> <hr width%> <font size=-2 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Except where noted, all original content Copyright &copy; Dreaming of Hawaii dot com and Rick Frazier Design 2001. All rights reserved. <br> Please direct comments to <a href=mailto: snipped-for-privacy@dreamingofhawaii.com> snipped-for-privacy@dreamingofhawaii.com</a> . <br> For problems with the web site, please contact the <a href=mailto: snipped-for-privacy@dreamingofhawaii.com>Webmaster</a> . <br> If you would like information about hosting your product or service on Dreaming
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If a DIY interests you http://www.studio1304.com/silca/cyclone/index.htm offers a nice version.
A practical plan for same is at http://www.billpentz.com/Woodworking/Cyclone/CyclonePlan.cfm
Other odds and sods may be gleaned from these sites as well.
Enjoy
P D Q
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Robatoy wrote:

About six years ago I daisy-chained two 55 gallon barrels with Lee Valley clear separator tops to a HF dust collector. This setup is dedicated to my ShopBot. I normally empty a barrel when it's somewhere between 1/2 to 2/3 full.
The first barrel traps nearly all of the course/medium stuff and some of the fine dust. The second has trapped everything not trapped by the first barrel.
The bag on the dust collector has never needed emptying.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
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This guy has been selling a version for a few years now. The pictures show a typical setup similar to your needs:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Cyclone-Separator-for-Dust-Collector_W0QQitemZ280294896934QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item280294896934&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparmsr%3A1205 |66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50
What machine is creating that much dust in an hour ?
Robatoy wrote:

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Now that one piqued my interest. Especially 2 in series. Thank you, Pat.
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V-grooving 3/4" MDF or PB with a CNC.

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Pat Barber wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cyclone-Separator-for-Dust-Collector_W0QQitemZ280294896934QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item280294896934&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparmsr%3A1205 |66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50
Wish I'd seen that when I was building mine. I'd have saved some time and money.

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wrote:

Just a bit of personal experience and my basic cheapness:
I built a "cyclone" system 5 or 6 years ago out of a fiber 50 gallon drum and it's fantastic..
The drum was free I made a plywood lid for the drum (good excuse to build a quick & dirty circle jig for the router) Cut two 4" holes in the lid, one in the center and one near an edge.. Put a straight DC hose connecter in the middle hole, A DC elbow in the hole on the edge.. (should say the one closer to the rim, I guess)
I connected the hose from the tools to the elbow and the DC hose to the middle hole.. Middle hole works a little better if you have a bit of lift straight up before directing it to the DC...
All I get in the DC lower bag now is fine dust.. All the heavier stuff accumulates in the barrel.. I used to have to empty the bag every month..... Now, I empty the barrel frequently, which is easier and a lot less mess, and haven't had to empty the DC bag more than once a year or so... YMWV
That said, I use the DC for the lathe and band saw, so different tools would have different results.. I use to use the separator/cyclone on the router table and saw and it worked fine, but the really messy stuff is outside now and the DC isn't connected to them..
mac
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Robatoy wrote:

However, you set your cyclone up, vent it outside the building into a suitable enclosure (I made mine to look like an outhouse). This way, you get rid of the dust, which is the whole purpose.
Deb
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Dr. Deb wrote:

How did you provide make-up air back into the building?
I'd like to do this myself, but haven't seen a method that I like for my application.
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Dr. Deb wrote:

You also get rid of any warm air in the shop right quick.
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For sure...
What isn't fair is that in summer, it doesn't seem to vent much heat.. Then again, we all know that life isn't fair..
Feliz Navidad
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