Cyclone dust collector question

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I recently purchased a Torit Cyclone Dust Collector. I already have a brand new Jet 2HP filter canister type dust collector. The cyclone was not too terribly much more expensive than one of those plastic garbage can cyclone separators and trash can. It looks to be in very good condition with one small dent. Plus, it has the cabinet at the bottom. Therefore, no need for a 55 gallon drum and stand.
A quote on the Torit site about cyclones states: "Can be used alone, with filter bag assembly, or as a pre-cleaner."
Can someone please explain the pre-cleaner setup? The picture in my mind is of the cyclone exhaust being fed into a second DC intake. It seems like almost nothing should make it through, but who knows? Is this at all feasible? Am I completely misunderstanding the term pre-cleaner.
I have heard of using other blower fans as boosters. I have the same picture in my mind about that setup and have the same questions.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Eric
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mnterpfan wrote:

Remember, Donaldson-Torit makes filtration systems for all sorts of uses, not just woodworking. You're right that almost nothing should make it through, but almost nothing is not nothing and in situations in which you're dealing with something where outside emissions are regulated that "almost nothing" can get you in trouble.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
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I looked at "Blue Tornado" and they mention a similar story on their equipment. The dust bags are the final filter. I think what happens, is that you use the cyclone as the "chip collector" and the bag collector as the dust collector.
mnterpfan wrote:

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On 16 Nov 2004 04:49:40 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (mnterpfan) wrote:

Hi Eric. I think you have the right idea. The cyclone exhaust goes to the DC intake, making the cyclone a "pre-cleaner." This protects your DC from taking large chips, screws, or other items that may damage the blades. The nice thing about a cyclone is that there are no moving parts.
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Eric:
Yes, typical cyclone receives the junk from the shop, and has an extractor on the output. Most cyclones don't really need a filter (bag) on the outside of the cyclone, because they are extremely efficient about separating dust and debris from the airstream. However, if you are one to do a lot of fine sanding, I would think about using something with an "after filter" just in case, particularly if you live in the city and have a neighbor within a hundred feet or so... A typical DC will have a reasonable filter to use as an after filter, and most don't drop the airflow so much as to make you want to remove them....
Any decent Cyclone will drop most of the debris from the airstream. Even my home made cyclone (from a 55 gallon drum) will drop just about everything except for the very finest dust (which could really just go outside, as I live in the country and don't have any neighbors within a mile on that side of the workshop) when the cyclone drum is working. However, if you forget to empty the drum (cabinet in your case) you will get a lot of dust [DAMHIKT], followed by possible chunks into your DC bags. Thus, it is still a good idea to run the standard bag filter on your DC, and to check the drum (cabinet) often to determine when it is time to empty it.... Just to see what effect it would have, I left the bags off my DC for about a month (but watched the drum to make sure it was never over half full) and I had but the very lightest dusting of extremely fine dust in the shed (about 6x10 feet) the DC lives in. However, I don't always remember to check the cyclone drum, so I always run with the filter bags on my DC, just in case. This has saved me a bunch of work with the shop vac on at least one occasion in the past year...
With the homemade cyclone I have, I can run with the filter bag off of the DC without any visible dust output until the drum is at least 2/3 full. I would imagine a commercial cyclone could stand a higher level of debris before it loses it's effectiveness, however, in the interest of making sure our environment is protected, I would suggest you continue to use the standard bags your DC has, AND check the DC bags periodically. Any significant dust in the DC bags indicates it's way past time to empty the cyclone drum/cabinet!!!
Good Luck, I'm sure you'll love having a cyclone
Thanks --Rick
mnterpfan wrote:

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wrote:

Rick.. I need a cyclone type lid for the DC being shipped to me... any hints/pic/plans available on what you built?
thanks, mac
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<snip>

I have no idea about how well these work, but am giving strong consideration to buying and installing one on my "cyclone-to-be". It's a monitor for the debris container that is supposed to trigger a audio/visual alarm when the level reaches some pre-determined point.
http://kronosrobotics.com/pj_dusty/dusty.shtml
Standard disclaimers apply - no affiliation, etc.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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HEY GUYS,
SINCE IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALL KNOW YOUR PRODUCTS QUITE WELL I THOUGHT I WOULD SHOOT OUT A QUESTION. I NEED TO PURCHASE A DUST COLLECTION SYSTEM FOR INSIDE OF A 1600 SQ. FT. SHOP. IT IS A SINGLE BAY AND IS CURRENTLY SET UP WITH , A TABLE SAW, PLANER/ JOINTER, CHOP SAW ETC. AND HAS NO DUST COLLECTION. THE LEASE STATES THAT THE COLLECTION SYSTEM CANNOT BE OUTDSIDE OF THE BUILDING, SO I NEED SOMETHING THAT IS OK FOR INSIDE AND HOPEFULLY NOT TOO LOUD. IF ANYONE COULD RECOMMEND A SUITABLE COLLECTION SYSTEM I WOULD APPRECIATE THE FEEDBACK ASAP.
BENDER
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On 19 Nov 2004 09:59:24 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@ualberta.ca (Bender) wrote:

Bill Pentz has spent a great deal of time and effort putting together a wealth of information about dust collections systems. I'd strongly urge you to spend some time with:
http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
to get a real education about the in and outs, advantages and disadvantages of various types and brands of DC systems. It would be well worth your time.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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On 19 Nov 2004 09:59:24 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@ualberta.ca (Bender) wrote:

shoot out a question, or SHOUT it out? OUCH!!
you don't want the Harbor Freight 2 hp one.. I'm happy with it so far, but the one thing you wouldn't call it is quiet..
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Bender shouted:

Bender,
(All caps on usenet is the equivalent of shouting.)
I have a low-cost dust collection setup that would probably work for you (mine is in a 2500 ft shop) and you can look it over for ideas at: http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/dust_collection.html
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
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Hi Morris:
I'm an admirer of yours (lurking fashion) and I'm interested in the HF dust collector, such as the one you describe on your webpage above, but am disappointed at the 30 micron bags it seems to come with.
Do you (or anyone else) have any advice for "better" bags that would fit on this HF machine? <http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumberE378>
Thanks in advance!
--
Best regards
Han
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Han wrote:

Han...
I'm afraid I can't help much. I'm even considering /removing/ the bags completely from my DC to see if it'll move more air without them - and still not draw dust right through my separators.
There's been previous discussion on the wreck about filter bags for this machine and, to tell the truth, I haven't paid much attention. You might try a Google groups search on "HF filter bag group:rec.woodworking" (without the quotation marks.)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
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I bought a heavier 'shaker felt' bag for my Delta (think HF, but Delta grey) 1.5 hp unit. My local Rockler had ordered some 72" tall ones, and had them sitting there for two years (you need 10' ceilings), and had marked them down to maybe $27. The top hangs from a hook in the shop rafters. (I think there's still 3 or 4 left, BTW)
I've half a can of chips & shavings in the trash can collector, and nothing in the plastic lower bag. There's dust on the outside of the upper bag, from running the router, biscuit jointer and some other tools, that aren't hooked up. The old, single stage system pumped dust through its upper bag, pretty badly.
Morris' idea about replacing the cart with a shop built version has merit. I'll wait for pictures, however.
Patriarch
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Just a note that will get flamed, but.... I have a whole 3 days experience with the HF unit with the 30 micron bags.. I say bags because as far as I can see, both bags are identical.. lol I hooked it up to the RAS and moved the DC into the path of a convenient sunbeam... cut a 3' scrap piece of 1/4 hardboard (what I seem to get the finest dust from on the saw) into 2 or 3" slices and had my neighbor watch the DC bag... he saw no floating particles. I know this isn't scientific, but the results were a LOT better than I expected..
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You might want to take a peek here:
http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm
Han wrote:

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--
Best regards
Han
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collector and mounting the motor and impeller on top? I mean something like the plastic garbage can lid thing, only an actual cyclone.
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mark wrote:

Mark...
Did you visit the link above? What you're asking about is what [I think] I did. My plastic lids are clear and I hope to tell you that it sure /looks/ like cyclones in in the barrels.
My longest single continuous routing run was a bit over three hours - when I used a 1/2" bit to true (flatten) my ShopBot's MDF work surface. I removed about 1/32" of MDF from the entire 49" x 97" sheet with the shop all closed up (it was too boring to watch so I went out to gab and drink coffee with a few of the pilots.) When the run finished I'd expected to see halos around the ceiling bulbs and a fine layer of dust on everything. There was a fair amount of MDF dust in the barrels (after all, I'd reduced about 148 cubic inches of solid MDF to dust) but none elsewhere - the air was clear and there weren't any halos.
This in spite of a /hole/ in the upper DC bag - and the inside of the DC bags were still clean. HF did finally send me a replacement for the bag damaged when my DC was shipped; but I haven't much worried about installing it.
As far as I've been able to tell, the only part of the DC I really need is the motor/impeller assembly; and I've given some thought to building a box on wheels to hold the barrels (inside the box) and support the motor and impeller (on top).
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
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"

Yes, I guess my question was can I use the funnel-shaped cyclone in the manner that you did, with the garbage cans. Incidentally, after seeing your site, I ordered one of the clear ones to try....will it work ok on a galvanized trashcan?
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