Cyclone dust collector kit now available

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A heads up for those interested in cyclone dust collection who want high quality and performance without the high price of industrial machines or the questionable performance of imports.
The Bill Pentz cyclone design is now available in kit form, along with a mating blower housing. For those suffering from low ceilings, a belt-drive accessory is in development, delivery expected in January.
Details at:
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/ClarkesKits.cfm
If you are not familiar with Bill Pentz's dust-collection web site, it is well worth investing some time going through it. Lots of important and useful info about dust collection, ductwork, air-flow requirements, health hazards of wood dust, and other topics. Bill almost died from the effects of wood dust, and the site is the result of his research as well as input from other woodworkers and professionals. The site is at:
http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/Index.cfm
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Clarke Echols wrote:

I'm considering this kit. It would be helpful for me if the page included a list of everything I needed to get to make a functioning cyclone collector. I know the information is all over the rest of Bill's site, but it's a large site. <g>
Thanks.
-- Mark
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what part of this did you not understand?
"The only things you need to build the cyclone, other than what is in the kit, are your tools and a tube of polyurethane caulk/adhesive-sealant and two wooden discs each 18.00" O.D. and 9.00" I.D. by 3/4" thick made from MDF or a good quality, solid-core plywood. The kit does not include any flex hose, ducting, collection bin, or blower assembly."
BRuce
Mark Jerde wrote:

--
---

BRuce


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BRuce wrote:

Well for one thing it seems to leave out the filters. ;-)
I'm also wondering if there are design limits on the size of the dust box at the bottom of the cyclone, as my ceiling is somewhat under 8' tall. I see from pictures others have mounted the motor between the rafters but I'm not sure that's a great idea here in Maryland. In the summer the the attic gets very hot.
The site is chocked full of good information but AFAICS it's not "rolled up" into a short "Hey Dummy! You Need This!" list anywhere. Clarke's response was quite helpful. Perhaps the info will show up on the kit page sometime.
-- Mark
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The cyclone unit is about 50-52" high, and requires another 6" for the blower housing on top. I have run into a number of people with low ceilings, some as low as 78" (and a standard door is 80" high!!!), so I'm working on an alternative to solve the "motor between the joists" problem (I met with a manufacturers' rep this morning about some of the components needed). Essentially what I'm doing is designing an adapter that will allow a belt drive direct to the center shaft for the blower using a C-face motor (the Leeson 5-HP Bill Pentz recommends works nicely here) that hangs alongside the housing and upper cyclone, thus getting the motor out of the space between joists or rafters, as the case may be. Bearings and pulleys add up in cost, but it looks like we'll have a solution on line and shipping in January at a price close to the same as the blower housing price ($150) plus shipping.
With this arrangement, you can plan on about 60" below the ceiling to the end of the dust chute below the cone. Subtract that from ceiling height and you have the available height for the dust bin. I built a bin from plywood in the form of an air-tight box with removable door (sealed all the way around. Cut a 6" hole in the top for the dust chute, slid it under the cyclone, raised it up on blocks and sealed the joint with elastomeric seal strip. Bought a Rubbermaid 22-gallon polyethylene storage bin from Home Depot for $5 and it fits inside the box like it was designed to fit. Haven't used it yet (too busy building kits and blowers), but it looks like it'll work well.
I do know that the 5-HP Baldor motor I put on top with a flat-blade, backward inclined squirrel-cage impeller I built (5" high by 14.5" diameter) kicks up one tremendous windstorm in my garage when I fire it up with all inlets and outlets free to the air.
I'll see what I can do about putting a list of "other stuff" on the kits page to cover that and make it easier to find.
Clarke
Mark wrote:
<snip>

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Clarke Echols wrote:

Cool! I like that. Since it's for larger motors I suppose it will be a 3-belt setup.

Thanks! More motivation to get 220v into my shop.
-- Mark
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Clarke Echols wrote:

Let me explain my motivation. I'm not a dust collector expert but I want better dust collection than my shop vac and low-end two-bagger DC give me. I'd rather buy an Oneida than run the risk of building something that, because *I* made a stupid newbie mistake, doesn't do a good job of protecting the health of me and my family.
I *am* a computer expert. I have seen many people build computer systems that are Porsche quality except for one critical component that brings the whole system down to a Briggs & Stratton go cart level. <g> They didn't do it because they wanted to waste money or make a sub-optimal system; they did it because of ignorance.
I want better dust collection. I'd love to save money and have the fun of putting much of it together myself. But I need to know that I'm doing it RIGHT. A checklist of recommended parts goes a long way to convincing me I'm not screwing up.
Thanks.
-- Mark
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I designed the kit with a lot of preforming already done so you don't have to know how to weld, solder or anything else that requires specialized skills. The first public report is from a firefighter with no experience with working sheet metal. Take a look at his:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?threadidR20
I spent 30 years at Hewlett-Packard, 15 years working on Unix learning products, including sole responsibility for HP's HP-UX system reference manual for several years. With 20 years of writing computer manuals and designing online help systems, I ***KNOW*** how to write user manuals. I was licensed as a Registered Professional Engineer by the State of Colorado in 1980, and I have a lot of metalworking experience (since the 1950s), so I know how to make stuff. This kit was designed for people who like the satisfaction of doing it themselves without any great experience, and the results are coming in. As John Sellers says in another thread farther down (later) in this newsgroup, "...the instructions are detailed to a gnat's hair."
It's as "idiot proof" as I can make it. If you can figure out Unix, you can build a cyclone. :-) BTW, the instructions are typeset using groff, (similar to troff), and if you haven't laid out printed-circuit-board artwork with troff, you don't know troff. :-) (for the rest of you all, troff is a typesetting program that runs on the Unix operating system.
Clarke
Mark Jerde wrote:

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Clarke Echols wrote:

Ok, correction. I'm not a *computer* expert, I'm a PC expert. <g> Though I know rm -r * my *nix is only better than 998.437 of 1000 USA citizens pulled at random off the street.

Great! I just want to make sure I don't buy a quad 3.0 GHz motherboard but only put 64 KB worth of filters on it. <g>
My 1983 $4.5k 8086 PC was LOADED with a 10MB hard drive and 64KB of memory. <g> "10 mega bytes? My god, what will you do with all that space?"> It's as "idiot proof" as I can make it. If you can figure out Unix,

Is the converse true? <g> If you can't figure out a bizarre chmod does that mean you shouldn't try to build a cyclone?

I see your troff and raise you (ABEND, CORE DUMP, PROCESSOR SHUTDOWN)
-- Mark
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I'd like to see that list too. After adding in a good insulation class F motor with overload protection ($300+), the impeller ($180), cartridge filter (about $70 for paper, double that for spun polyester), fiber barrel (about $30), and a short piece of large diameter flex hose (which is expensive and hard to find in short lengths) to connect the barrel I'm guesstimating you've met or exceeded the price of a new Woodsucker or 2hp Oneida.
I'm sure in the end you'd have an excellent cyclone system but it doesn't seem cost effective to build your own unless you go the true cheapskate route and form all the sheetmetal yourself.
--
Scott Post snipped-for-privacy@insightbb.com http://home.insightbb.com/~sepost /

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On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 12:11:06 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@insightbb.com (Scott Post) wrote:

well lots of time you can start with the 2hp off your other dc setup. that's what I am doing. I get pretty good flow with it. You need a couple of filters though. but you can use a metal trash can. 6" flex hose is easy to find and you need it for hooking up tools anyway. but with two cartridge filters you will get more air flow then anything else out there.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
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Steve Knight wrote:

This is kind of what I'm thinking, start out _real_ cheap, as in:
- get the cyclone kit and a metal trash can - make a blower unit - use the 1.5HP Jet motor from my existing DC (it's only a DC-650, but it would pull more with a better volute) - use the inexpensive Jet 14" impeller, since it will probably fit my existing motor's shaft without a problem
The only remaining part is how to filter the cyclone exhaust inexpensively.
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    This sounds like a good way to burn up your motor. Unless you have a very restrictive inlet to the blower, or restrictive ducting, this is going to put too much load on the motor, overheating it and/or continuously throwing the breaker. For the 14" impeller, you need a solid 3 HP. You could restrict the inlet enough to make it safe for your motor, but that seems kind of counterproductive.
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Dan Brown wrote:

I had considered that as a possibility... it may mean initially just using the impeller that came with the motor and living with the CFM increase that a better volute/cyclone get for me.
OTOH, the current DC that this motor/impeller are located in do not begin to draw as much current as the motor is rated for, so obviously the existing 4" inlet and dumping into a bag are restricting the airflow quite substantially. I could try the new arrangement just to see what amperage the motor (tries) to draw, and ramp down the inlet size until it's running safely.
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You really need a 2hp motor. 3 even better. you can get a cheep motor to hold you over. best to sell the 650 to buy the motor and filter.

about 140 for two cartridges. you can get a really big cloth bag for about 100.00. it would work well as long as you keep it clean and don't cut a lot of tropicals. but you won't get the same airflow.
--
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Steve Knight wrote:

That's what I'm thinking as well, there's just no good way to use what I've got. I'll probably just get a cheap HF or equivalent 2 or 3HP motor and be done with it.

Well, I don't cut as much tropicals as you do (<G>), but I do like to work with them. The filters are less expensive than I expected, but this still means around $500 for the least expensive system I can build (cyclone kit, home-built blower housing, filter cartridges and motor). And then there's new ductwork :-) Not a cheap project.
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"Kevin P. Fleming" wrote:

True. But people ask me why I drive big cars that burn so much gas (my 1986 Lincoln Town Car cost me $1400 six years ago and I've put near 100,000 miles on it since with negligible repair costs (it had 112,000 miles when I bought it; it gets 21 mpg at 75 mph, Denver to LA, and 16-18 around town). I tell them I can buy a lot of gas for the price of a hospital stay. (A fender-bender moved my front bumper 2" sideways and put the driver of the little Plymouth that hit it into the hospital. No other damage except a little minor stuff like a broken turn signal lens and cracked grill.)
A good cyclone system will cost around $1K if built from a kit with add-on stuff. How many days not working due to asthma or other dust- related illness will it take to make that a good investment. I was cutting some MDF and could tell the stuff was creating problems in my lungs in mere minutes. I went looking for a cheap dust collector. Found Bill Pentz's site, concluded I was being stupid if I didn't build a cyclone. Now I'm building kits and shipping them all over North America. And I had no intention of getting into the dust-collector business. A lot of household vacuum cleaners sell for a lot more than a cyclone and some are junk. Others are good or OK. We bought a cyclone vacuum 20 years ago and I was amazed at how much dirt it pulled out of the carpet and how much cleaner the air in our home became. Not nearly as much dust on the furniture, etc. When you filter the air before putting it back out to breathe, the dust goes away. You can't avoid that fact.
But to collect dust, you have to have enough air volume moving to create the wind necessary to trap and eliminate the dust.
CE
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it's not like a computer and it is dirt easy. I would not worry about it. the worst that happens is you have to clean your filters more often. but you still have to put the system together no matter what brand you buy. that's the critical part.
--
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With this arrangement, you can plan on about 60" below the ceiling to the

this is something I need to resolve. my filters sit on two pieces of plywood screwed together to form a v open in front. I just have 8" pipe coming out of the filter and a 8" cap taped on. when I blow out the fitter I get a capful and a couple of partial's. not much room for much of a box under it.
--
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not sure that there would be much of a temp differential between bottom and top of rafters.
Perhaps I made an error in assuming that the cyclone kit was for the cyclone only. I figured filtering would be an exercise for the builder. Either old bags, new 1 micron bags or pleated filters, whatever floats yer boat.
BRuce
Mark Jerde wrote:

--
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BRuce


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