CYA Highland Woodworking

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Just Wondering wrote:

I disagree that commercial banks own the Federal Reserve Banks. As you said, the Federal Reserve Banks (which are not commmercial banks) carry out the business of the Federal Reserve. It is the Fed which sets reserve requirements, and other rules and requirements, that commercial banks must obey--and not the other way around. In particular, for instance, the Fed sets the Fed Funds Rate and chooses a path of monetary policy. Commercial banks follow suit--they definitely do not call the shots for the Federal Reserve Banks. That the Federal Reserve Banks may hold some assets of the Commercial Banks does NOT make them the "owners"--any more than an checking account at a commercial account makes you a part owner.
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On 5/24/2012 8:16 PM, Bill wrote:

Your disagreement does not change the facts.

You're confusing ownership with control The Federal Reserve Banks are controlled by a 12-member panel. The commercial banks/owners choose five members of the panel; the President chooses the other seven.

But the fact that the Federal Reserve Banks are owned by stockholders, and it is the commercial banks who own the stock, does make them the owners.
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Just Wondering wrote:

Like you say, I confuse Control with Ownership. To me, the latter typically implies the former--and that's what I thought you were suggesting. Since you are not, I'm not sure what sort of meaningful inference you want to make.
The commercial banks/owners choose five

I wouldn't say that. That the Fed has "policing power" makes it quite different than a corporation--it's interwined with government, as you've indicated above.

No. I would say that the The Federal Reserve is owned by the U.S. citizens, like the highways and the national debt are. The fact that some banks deposit money there does not change my point of view. YMMV.
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The fed is not owned by the citizens Bill.

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tiredofspam wrote:

In your last post, you wanted to say it was owned by the commercial banks.
It is hard to deny that the federal is ours, whether we approve of its actions or not. A little like the presidency. It is OUR office. The fed works, or is supposed to, in our national (i.e. collective) interest. No one is going to liquidate the Federal Reserve, so the notion of "ownership" is mute, IMO.

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Bill that was not my post about it being owned by commercial banks.. It was a reply to a thread.
As far as the Fed, it has clearly overstepped it's bounds.
And so has our government. After reading a book on this recently it was brought to light that the feds were prohibited from printing money or minting. Only the states were given that right.
All of this by the founding fathers to prevent what is happening today. Where politicians raid the coffers and print money to pay debt. The states were granted the right to MINT money of a known weight and quality... talking about precious metals... not paper.
The feds had no rights granted. And history shows why.
On 5/25/2012 1:58 PM, Bill wrote:

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On 5/25/2012 1:36 PM, tiredofspam wrote:

Then please explain the meaning of Article I Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution, which says: "The Congress shall have power . . . to coin Money, [and] regulate the Value thereof . . ."
BTW, I would point out that the paper bills in your wallet are not technically money. They are promissory notes representing a debt owed to their holders by the Federal Reserve banks.
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COIN
They have no rights to print money (promissory notes eiter).
BTW read that carefuly. I believe that paper which has no value. And since gold was removed from backing the dollar, it really has no value... what does it mean..
On 5/25/2012 5:04 PM, Just Wondering wrote:

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tiredofspam wrote:

The Fed is responsible for a great deal to do with the currency. They DO affect the money supply by:
1. Changing reserve requirements for commercial banks. 2. Setting the "discount rate" that commercial banks can borrow (currently very low). 3. Open market operations (buying and selling various financial instruments from commercial banks).
My knowedge of this is 30 years old, but I found a link for anyone who is interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_creation
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On 5/25/2012 2:41 AM, Bill wrote:

(a) What "policing power" does the Federal Reserve System have? (b) Yet the Fed IS a corporation.

Yes, you can certainly that. You're wrong, but don't let that stop you.

(a) What highways are owned by the U.S. Citizens? Where can I find the deed of title?
(b) The federal debt is not owned by the U.S. Citizens.

Apparently neither does the fact that the Fed has stockholders who own the corporation.
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On 5/23/2012 9:44 AM, tiredofspam wrote:

I agree to some extent however if the government did not print more money/put more in circulation the economy would not grow. For example if there were only one trillion US dollars to work with the economy would get worse as the population grows. Read that as fewer dollars available per person. And when those that do not spend every dollar they make there are fewer dollars in circulation.
One of the problems is printing more money to pay government dept before taxes are collected for that purpose.
Basically there are several reasons that the government prints more money to increase circulation. Paying off debt is not a good one.
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On 5/22/2012 11:00 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

The term "bankrupt" has undergone the same corruption as the term "minority", thanks to blurring of distinctions by our legal system.
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over a course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
Frdric Bastiat, Economic Sophisms [1845]
For all practical purposes you are bankrupt when you can't repay your creditors. To maintain otherwise is to be morally bankrupt yourself.
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On Wed, 23 May 2012 08:24:52 -0500, Swingman wrote:

There is no moral difference in this:
http://media.al.com/spotnews/other/Jefferson%20County%20Bankruptcy%20Filing%2011.9.2011.pdf (the bankruptcy filing for Jefferson county, al)
and California, only a paper difference.
Both caused by corrupt self serving politians, Alabam would be better off if Jefferson county were cored out of the middle and discarded.
basilisk
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On 5/21/2012 7:05 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

What do you call this:
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-20-14/brave-new-economy-%E2%80%93-california-budget-implications-real-estate-%E2%80%93-4-key-metric
Since Bill Clinton's "meaning of _is_ " is no longer on the table, you need to come up with other words to describe reality, eh?
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On Mon, 21 May 2012 17:05:49 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

12 billion in the hole.
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