The wood/plastic thing often causes disbelief, but it's well documented in numerous studies. This page
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has this to say: "Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the wood surfaces are found alive inside the wood for some time after application, they evidently do not multiply, and they gradually die. They can be detected only by splitting or gouging the wood or by forcing water completely through from one surface to the other. If a sharp knife is used to cut into the work surfaces after used plastic or wood has been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually, more bacteria are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a used wood surface."
Vinegar is also a very effective sanitizing agent for a cutting board. It's a common item in a kitchen and therefore more likely to be used more often.
Just a comment about Butcher Blocks. A little bit of memory.
When I was a young man at 16, about 56 years ago, I worked in a grocery store which also had a meat counter. There was NO finish put on it, but Every day, at the end of the day when closing, the Butcher would use a very stiff wire brush to work down the surface, scraping it away with the brush until all the blood was gone, then we would sanitize both the butcher block and all of the enclosed meat counter with Ammonia. Boy did that ever clean up the blood. Now that was Pure Ammonia, NOT Sudsy Ammonia that grocery stores sell today.
Back then, you never saw the top of any butcher block that had a flat surface on the top, and that was because of the way that it was cleaned, the top soon became waive. Now those were true butcher blocks, about 3 feet square and 2 to 2 1/2 feet thick, end grain up, supported on heavy
4 X 4 legs at each corner. I have no idea how much they weighed, but I never saw one moved while they were working on it. I would take it that the end grain actually made it easier to clean, and that is why they made them that way.
Franks right........I was a cleaning contractor for over 25years and it is well known and accepted that wood is less hospitable to germs than plastic.....restaurants commonly use wood cutting boards and wood counters...obviously they still must be cleaned , bleached etc...... it is still a wise practice with any cutting board to have separate boards for veggies and raw meats. Rod
Mineral oil is not food. It's indigestible. Stuff sold as laxitive is USP "pharmaceutical" grade.
Absolutely incorrect on both counts. Rancidity is incomplete oxidation. Keep your board open to fresh air instead of confining it or covering it, and it'll be great.
Oil doesn't "eventually" absorb odors, which, where food is concerned, are normally organic non-polar molecules. They dissolve readily in oil, not in water. That's why the board still smells even after you wipe it. If it didn't have the oil to protect it from dispersing rapidly into the air or from being mechanically rinsed away, different matter. Sort of like bacterial cell walls, which have the hydrophobic (lypophilic) side out, and stay a long time in oil when a good submersion in water would lyse the cell.
Ever notice that all the domestic stinkbombs they sell are based on oil or wax?
That's most common. Next most common is edge-grain up. Why not actually look at a few cutting boards and see for yourself?
Not true at all. Far too often, you ask questions that you could answer on your own with only a minimal effort at experimentation or observation. Example above: what does [mineral oil] make the wood look like?
Likewise, you frequently ask the same questions over and over. Why? Hoping for a different answer?
Lots of people have been yelling at him. This is unfortunate, because he doesn't care, and the complaints won't change his behavior. Some of us still have hopes that you may change yours.
Here's why it bothers people: this group is, as you suggest below, for helping people (among other purposes). That purpose is defeated, or at least diminished, when posters deliberately prevent their posts from being archived.
On top of that, it's just plain pointless: even if your original post is not archived, if just one person quotes it in response... guess what happens.
I have ADD, too, but I manage to cope with it. Perhaps you need to try a different medication. Caffeine works surprisingly well for many people. If you don't already drink coffee, give it a try; if you do, try more.
Perhaps the time spent on woodworking (and Usenet posting) would be more productively spent in resolving those family and work issues.
Just a suggestion.
Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.
If nobody reads your posts, then you'll not receive answers to your questions either.
The kind of help you're looking for is the kind of help that a lot of third-graders look for with their homework: to have their parents do it for them.
The "crap" you have received is uniformly and universally in response to your failure to make even the slightest attempt to find out anything on your own.
Any "food grade" oil works. Best if it's not a peanut oil because they yellow and get sticky. I regularly use walnut, both for my boards and to cook with. Great flavor!
The end of a board is made up of open pores that work like a bunch of straws. End grain up is better for knife blades. They don't dull as quickly.
Neat stuff...
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for everyone...
I've got an old maple cutting board about 16" x 28" that is side cut strips (1-34" square). It has finally started separating, but the wood is solid. I'd like to rip the 16" lengths apart and re-cut them into
1-1/2" blocks to make into two end-grain cutting boards.
What's the best way to cut and make these pieces square?
I'm limited on tools, so all suggestions appreciated.
There will be many options. I'd possibly try the following:
Since you are cutting it up, no harm in making a first cut between two center pieces [to allow use of 12" planer ...you have a planer?] I sometimes tack a 1" straight edge [1/4" precut hardboard strip will do] with a glue gun. That is a guide along the fence, on top of the wood of course, and easily removed after the cut.
Run the two pieces through the planer to get at least top/bottom level and parallel. You might have to shim and tack it to a bit of MDF [glue gun again] to get the first surface. Remove for the last piece, of course.
Back to the TS, and make lengthwise cuts. What I've done is to cut carefully enough to not have blade shimmer make a mess if the cut is tough and stressed, then recut [later] taking off just a hair ...no stress, and an even cut.
etc.... Worked for me repairing stuff for friends and family.
No kidding, George. That's why I didn't say "food". I said "food-grade". DOGS for it and you'll find a thousand different sources for it. Food-grade means that it can be used to lubricate machinery which will come in contact with food. It's often fed to horses precisely because it's non-digestible and, therefore, works well to lubricate their GI tracts to lessen the risk of an impaction collic.
Rancidity is NOT incomplete oxidation. Rancidity is the presense of acids like acetic, butyric, isovaleric, etc. which happen to be breakdown byproducts of many foods and vegetable-derived oils. Complete oxidation is one way to eliminate these acids, but to use your own words, it is "absolutely incorrect" to say that rancidity is defined as incomplete oxidation. That's like defining dirt as not enough soap.
That being said, I agree 100% that keeping your board open to fresh air would more quickly oxidize any rancid food particles or oils (either from the food or as a result of oil you applied to the board) and prohibit growth of stinky anaerobic bacteria. That's the main reason why I don't oil my own cutting boards either. However, I still believe that an oiled board will be less likely to absorb food particles (not molecules) which are often suspended (not dissolved) in water. The particles will get dragged into the pores as the water diffuses in. They won't be chemically bound there or anything, just somewhat difficult to remove unless you scrub really well. Oiling the board isn't going to prevent this from happening, but it will slow it down significantly. An unoiled board will absorb onion juice a lot faster than an oiled one. Hence I said that an unoiled board will absorb odors much more readily; I failed to mention that the unoiled board would be rid of those odors much, much more quickly.
Give me a break; I was answering a question for Stryped, for crying out loud. Did you actually expect me to talk about dissolution in non-polar solvents? Of course those molecules dissolve rapidly in oil, but it generally takes a while for enough to be dissolved that it is readily apparent to the average person smelling it - not because it dissolves slowly - just because the average person doesn't chop enough smelly food at one time to saturate it. Oiled boards I've had in the past tend to get stinkier and stinkier over the coarse of months. Hence, I "eventually" switched to nonoiled boards.
I was under the impression that stinkbombs are usually based on either hydrogen sulfide or some sort of mercaptan (e.g. methyl mercaptan). As far as I know, H2S and most mercaptans are both oil- and water-soluble.
By the way, as I mentioned above, I DON'T oil my cutting boards. I agree with you that they smell better in the long run when they're not oiled. I was merely answering Stryped's question given that he was already planning on oiling the board. Mineral oil may still dissolve (and prevent oxidation of) rancidity acids, but its presence will not CREATE any of those acids. Most vegetable- and nut-derived oils will.
Smell notwithstanding, an unoiled board will develop cracks and checks much sooner than an oiled one, and people often prefer the look of an oiled board. Personally, I prefer practicality, smell, and hygiene to good looks and longevity.
One's a complete oxidation, the other is not, but results in a fermentation product.
"Rancid" food is usually characterized by lots of acidic degradation products like you say, but which all arise from the partial oxidation of the chemicals common to foods. They aren't "byproducts" so much as stable intermediates in the oxidation process.
I was thinking of incomplete oxidation as not oxidizing all the acids. You and George are saying incomplete oxidation of food = stable (and stinky) intermediate state.
Interesting that you deleted this part of my comment.
"A plastic board set into wood and easily removable for washing makes the most sense. For pure sanitary purpose a glass board would be selected but it would be a little rougher on knives."
I would bet if you read it, you won't be able to find such a flaw but if you do, please let us know.
I think the self-healing plastic types would be especially hard to disinfect.
This leads us to a discussion of why wood is preferred over plastic. Wiping the plastic board with Clorox was shown to be largley ineffective because the bacteria hide in the knife cuts where the Clorox does not penetrate.
Exactly what happens to bacteria on a wood board remains a mystery. What is observed is that samolella bacteria were not recoverable forma wood board an hour after contamination but were recovereable from an UHMPE board several hours after it had been wiped down with Clorox.
Surprised the hell out of me.
Agreed.
No, see above.
I would think so. But unless it has been tested I'll hold off on reaching a conclusion. After all, I've been wrong before, like when I thought plastic would be more sanitary than wood.
1- If you don't want people responding to you stop posting in a public newsgroup. *You* don't get a say in who replies to your posts. Suck it up.
2 - "This" is not a free country. "This" is USENET, a world-wide, distributed, discussion mechanism that (mostly) runs over "the Internet".
I routinely use virgin olive oil for wooden food utensils. That's another oil that does not get sticky/resinous with age. For the first coat or two I usually thin the olive oil with vegetable turps to help it travel into the grain.
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