Cut off your finger? Sue

[Kevin]

Excerpt from the judgement in a similar later case in Britain:

"I accept Mr. Hathaway?s evidence that the temperature settings for the Blickman and Bloomfield coffee machines were pre-set by the manufacturers and were as follows:

Blickman

Brewing temperature 86.66 C to 90 C (188 F to 194 F)

Holding temperature 86.66 C to 90 C (188 F to 194 F)

Bloomfield (up to September 2001)

Brewing temperature 78.88 C to 83.33 C (174 F to 182 F )

Holding temperature 75 C to 78.88 C (167 F to 174 F)"

So it's pretty obvious at least some of the machines have separate brewing and holding temperature settings. If not, I'm fairly confident McDonald's has enough of these things to tell the manufacturer whatever they want to do with one and get it.

The judge however wasn't having any of it, including the if it was a lower temperature it wouldn't have been as bad of a burn argument, because according to what was presented to him even the lower temperature they were asking for was still in the 3rd degree burn in 2 seconds range. However, he is of course not an expert in thermodynamics and can only go on what he is told. A model or experiment is only as good as the assumptions behind it. It doesn't sound like anyone bothered to rig up a human analog with temperature sensors, get it up to body temperature and with clothes on it actually pour the damn coffee on it.

"There has been no research performed on human skin to study the relative effects of temperature and duration of contact. However, pigs have skin very similar to human skin and there has been research using pigs. The classic paper in this field is Moritz and Henriques: ?The relative importance of time and surface temperature in the causation of cutaneous burns? published in (1947) 23 American Journal of Pathology 695-720. This research shows that the minimum temperature at which skin burns is 44 degrees Celsius. At 50 C the duration of exposure required for a full thickness burn is 257 seconds. At 55 C the duration for such a burn is 11 seconds. At 65 C the duration required is just 2 seconds. The relationship between the surface temperature of the skin and the exposure time required for a full thickness burn is exponential. "

This doesn't tell me whether they were applying a fixed heat source, say a thick metal plate, which would hold its temperature, versus a spilled liquid which would be losing its temperature rapidly in a dynamic situation which would give different results. I'm guessing the former. There's also the clothing which would also reduce the temperature before contact with the skin. Small differences, but we're talking about whether a temperature is reached in 2 seconds (you're screwed) or 10 seconds (you have time to go "FUCK!" a couple times, gather your wits, release your seat belt, and yank down your pants.

-Kevin

[Swingman]

Nothing "revisionist" about it ... the manufacturers at the time rightly considered the licensing fees, or otherwise face threats of future legal action, as little more than "extortion and monopolistic", which has indeed turned out to be the case.

[HeyBub]

Let's run the numbers: Say the inventor figures he should get $1 million per year for his invention.

He calculates 100,000 table saws are sold each year, so he needs ten bucks for each saw sold. Assuming half of the saw people won't go for the deal, that means he needs $20 royalty per saw sold.

Further assuming half the saws sold are under $200 retail ($100 out the factory door), that means the saw manufacturers are looking at a 20% price increase on their finished product.

I can't imagine a tool manufacturer taking that big a competitive hit intentionally.

Further, that's only if the inventor was $1 million per year. He may need many times that to amortize development costs.

He needs to "generalize" his invention, making it available for other devices such as washing machines, garbage disposals*, grinders, lawnmowers**, or anything else that goes 'round and 'round. Probably not needed on a clock's second hand.

[Swingman]

Actually, and IIRC, he was seeking 8 percent licensing/royalties from manufacturers on the wholesale price of each saw sold.

What surprises me is the number of naive apologists who don't see each development that has played out thus far, from the original attempt to secure licensing fees as above, to the attempts at securing government mandate, to manufacture of a saw with the device, to the ongoing litigation, as the carefully planned legal strategy (extortion, some would say) that it is.

"Those who have eyes ...."

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 13:19:44 -0800, the infamous "Artemus" scrawled the following:

Feed the meat to the less picky zoo animals, like buzzards and sharks. They eat their own kind, so it's quite fitting.

You'd let a lawyer get between you and the woman you lust^H^H^Hove, IN BED?

No, replace the imported oil with domestic lawyer oil. It's likely light enough to replace neetsfoot oil, 3-in-1, agricultural, and sewing oils. Make lawyers USEFUL for once in their meager lives.

-- There is no such thing as limits to growth, because there are no limits to the human capacity for intelligence, imagination, and wonder. -- Ronald Reagan

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:10:22 -0500, the infamous Kevin scrawled the following:

What is so hard to understand about the fact that YOU DON'T PUT HOT COFFEE BETWEEN YOUR LEGS BECAUSE EVEN AT THE MUCH LOWER 150F, IT'S HOT ENOUGH TO BURN YOU, DISTRACT YOU, AND CAUSE AN ACCIDENT, POTENTIALLY KILLING SOMEONE?

-- There is no such thing as limits to growth, because there are no limits to the human capacity for intelligence, imagination, and wonder. -- Ronald Reagan

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:13:53 -0600, the infamous [e-mail] (Robert Bonomi) scrawled the following:

Thank you, my profrivial friend.

-- There is no such thing as limits to growth, because there are no limits to the human capacity for intelligence, imagination, and wonder. -- Ronald Reagan

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:42:35 -0600, the infamous -MIKE- scrawled the following:

No, Mike, it's not mere semantics. Judge and jury are two entirely different entities in law. And the fact of the matter is that the judge hated the suit in the first place. I don't see how he let the thing into his courtroom. He reacted to the assinine award given by that dumbass jury and changed (remittitured) a nearly 3 million dollar award down to $640k, covering her (lawyer-extended) medical costs. Without a lawyer, they would have been a tenth that.

Then why are you participating in the discussion? Just hit 'I' and move to the next topic.

-- There is no such thing as limits to growth, because there are no limits to the human capacity for intelligence, imagination, and wonder. -- Ronald Reagan

[keithw86]

IN A STYROFOAM CUP

[-MIKE-]

No Larry, it is semantics, in the context of what I said. If I wrote, "she was awarded," it would've save you this whole diatribe.

[krw]

So you require that the coffee sit on the burner for an hour before serving? When it's done brewing it's served.

As I said in an earlier post, at the time of the McD's fiasco, Dunkin' Donuts was *serving* coffee at 180F +/-3F. The franchise would be measured on this and it was a severe ding if the coffee was out of spec. Now, after the trial lawyers took over the world, it's hard to get a luke warm cup of coffee from anyone.