Current Count - As Of 10/25/05

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2000 Young Americans have now died since the beginning of this "War".
Why is it important to post this here?
21 more young Americans have died since I last posted the count, a week ago.
Why is it important to post this here?
The demographics of the Wreck are very interesting.
We are old enough to have served in other wars.
We are old enough to have children and grandchildren who might be called to serve in this "War".
We are old enough to know better.
We vote, we are smart, and we can make a difference if we try.
Why is it important to post this here?
The killing of our children in a "War" that has been entered into without regard for probable cause, without a clear purpose, without a description of victory - is no war that we want our children to be involved in.
To those who would say that, "They enlisted, they know the mission." - watch the current advertising for the military on television.
Is there a mention of dismemberment? Do they advertise the possibility of death? Do the ads have the degree of disclosure of possibilities that we would demand from those who would sell us drugs, food, and tools?
Why is it important to post this here?
Yes, I have been big on keeping the Wreck free of political discourse.
This is not about politics.
This is about the lives of our children and grandchildren.
Some arguments transcend boundaries that once were useful.
Why is it important to post this here?
Isn't it obvious? And, yes, I will post an update every week, so set your filters, if you are of such a mind.
For those who have served in the military, I would encourage them to read the words of a man who grew up in my home town. A two time Congressional Medal Of Honor recipient. A Marine who should have been Commandant - but was too honest:
http://lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm
Tom Watson - WoodDorker tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
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Keep on posting....

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Tom, You represent yourself as someone who has given a great deal of thought to world politics and the injustice of war!
As a young Marine I spent a year one month in-country in the late 60's. I was sent home to repair a small wound to my lower back. So its with a very heavy troubled heart that I count the wounded and dead.
I would like to ask you a simple question that has trouble me greatly. It scares me. It scares me more then nukes did, it scares me more then Nam did.
How in the world, does the world deal with the faction of Islam which believes that the conversion of whole world to Islam is necessary and is demanded of them. And that the end justifies the means, including any type of terror against Jews, Christians, and even other Islamic woman and children.
Thanks for taking the time to answer this OT post.
Ed
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snipped-for-privacy@cox.com wrote:

That's a good question. Unfortunately, no one I know has an answer. The problem seemingly was smaller and less vicious before we invaded Iraq 2-1/2 years ago. While it may not be true, it seems to me that our invasion and continued occupation of that country has increased both the numbers and intensity of Islamic haters in the world. It may have just brought them to the surface, as I infer from your post, but the problem is real and very likely to get worse. We don't seem to be doing anything whatsoever to determine the causes, nor to correct the condition, and, in fact, too many of those we have elected seem to ignoring the problem altogether.
There is a poll by another poster that shows just how effective we are in winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. Does that phrase seem familiar? Only 1% of the Iraqis feel more secure now than before we toppled Saddam. Something like 82% feel we don't belong there, a point on which I happen to agree with them.
Oddly enough, Iraq seems to be in far worse shape now than it was under Saddam, and there is no indication of permanent improvement that I'm able to see.
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That's not surprising. Better one dictator you know and a semblance of control than multiple gun happy insurgents blowing up everything and anyone in sight.
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Glad your day is nice. Our up here in Ontario, Canada is about 4 F. with a lot of rain. And that's good weather for this time year. Sincerest wish is to win the lottery and move down to a temperate part of the US. Been trying to figure out which part of your country is warm, but not really hot, doesn't usually have anything colder than 45 F., no floods, earthquakes, tornadoes and the least incidence of any sort of climatic catastrophe.
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"Upscale" wrote in message

Not that you wouldn't be welcome, but I don't think Texas would fit your requirements of temperate. As for the rest, be a good boy and maybe in the afterlife, Pleasantville ...
;)
--
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Last update: 10/22/05
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Swingman wrote:

Somehow, I have a feeling this is the best time of year in much of Texas. It usually is, here, too, but it's been kind of weird this year, warm late and almost no color to be seen in the woods. We drove up on the Blue Ridge Parkway yesterday, took the dog and the camera scouting sites to shoot classic cars, and my wife brought snacks. The wind was so strong I thought it would blow our hair off when we located a table. One thing for sure, there was no competition for the picnic tables anywhere we stopped!
It was still enjoyable and I got three or four good sites and half a day off. Hard to beat that.
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"Charlie Self" wrote in message

It is ... just walked in from opening the doors on the shop and it was a perfect 59. Nice to be able to work without ending the day looking like a harness lathered plow horse.

We basically have two colors here in Texas, live and dead. The wife's from AR and keeps telling me how pretty the colors are this time of year ... unfortunately, that's one of life's little pleasures entirely lost on me.
My favorite summer time locale in the US thus far is Wisconsin, up around Cable.
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Swingman wrote:

When you get time (yeah, right), give almost anywhere in Vermont or New Hampshire a try. Maine ain't all that bad either. Stay out of all of them in December, January, February and March. After Tax Day, the weather moderates. June is horrible in Maine--black flies. I think they're the same thing we call deer flies, but millions more, and they raise a welt the size of a silver dollar.
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Well, I'd definitely be up to visiting sometime. Heard barbequing is national pastime in your neck of the woods. Guess that's status quo for all that Texas beef you've got. These past few years, it's the cold that gets to me, heat doesn't bother me much at all other than running the fan once in awhile. Haven't run the air condition once in five years. Of course, few days reach 100F up here, but it does get humid.
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"Upscale" wrote in message

If you're ever in this neck of the woods, let us know beforehand and we'll scooch over and make room for a visit.

Yep ... tofu doesn't stay on the grill worth a damn.

I wear shorts all year long. I sometimes have to put on a shirt jacket over the top, but that is rare ... and the fashion industry ignores me for some reason?
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'fraid you only get to pick through a chinese menu of the above (at least for the no colder than 45 deg F:
You get really hot in summer, temperate in winter, drop-dead gorgeous spring and fall (like now): Arizona
You get temperate year around, but get earthquakes and mud and fire seasons: California
Hot, humid summers, mild winters, but you get tornadoes and hurricanes (if you go farther south. : Texas and Florida
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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snipped-for-privacy@cox.com wrote in

By teaching the children otherwise.
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I'd be interested in seeing your proposals for doing that...
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 23:08:55 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

By setting a good example for one thing. It is not a very wise thing for the only remaining superpower to act like an international bully by bombing any country that makes us uneasy. Gaining global community support not only is more effective at keeping the dictators in check but also builds diplomatic capital with those countries who are(were) friendly or neutral. Raging around the world, flexing our (weakening) military muscles only weakens our relationship with those whose support we need to REALLY fight international terrorism. Parenting is hard work, being a bullying parent sounds like the easy way out but it is only inviting disaster. It would be nice if the people who claim to be patriots understood that the US can and should be a shining example - of what's right with a constitutional democracy and not by flaunting and abusing the advantage of strength we've built by being a constitutional democracy.
But we get distracted - this was a discussion about Iraq - not about Islamic terrorists. Saddam Hussein bore NO tolerance for any kind of fundamentalism, Islamic or otherwise - to associate Iraq with Islamic terrorism simply buys the BIG LIE we've been handed by this administration (and his father). Sure, Saddam was perfectly willing to make deals with any enemies of the US but he was also smart enough to keep his hands (and borders) clean because he knew any appearance of explicit support for terrorism would bring the US might onto his head. The irony is that the invasion of Iraq actually OPENED the borders of Iraq to Al Queada. Before, the situation was controlled, now it's a f**king mess with 2000+ US soldiers paying the ultimate price for the current administration's egotism and lack of foresight.
TWS
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TWS wrote:

    j4
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 09:58:35 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@no.com wrote:

I was referring to the OP's thread, not yours. Sorry if this offends you.
<snip of rest of rant>
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TWS wrote:

Yes, we should be more like France and Russia and supply the dictator with everything he needs to carry out his atrocities, take the money and turn our back and pretend it isn't happening. Ever hear of the food for oil scandal? Maybe we should set that kind of example.

So how many more useless resolutions would you have the worthless UN pass before finally doing something about them. Apparently fourteen times of saying "Saddam, if you do this one more time, we're gonna...." wasn't enough for you. If the UN wants to appear weak, let them. It doesn't mean we have to. Thats why we formed this country, remember? We don't have to go along with the Europeans or the UN. Ever see "Star Wars"? Remember the cantina scene? All the corrupt space trash? Now look at the UN and see the similarities.

Next you're going to tell us it takes a village to raise a child, right? My parents were often mean, bullying nonetheless loving parents and I turned out just fine. Now on the other hand, I see plenty of ill mannered little snots everywhere I go these days, disrespecting their parents in public, telling them to "shut up", etc. These things never went on in my formative years, and that wasn't so long ago.
>It would be nice if the people who claim

OK, can't let this slide....we are not a democracy and we weren't designed to be one by our constitution. We were given a republic by our founding fathers. Someone asked Ben Franklin, "Mr. Franklin, what form of government have you given us?" Ben said, "I have given you a republic, if you can keep it." If you don't know the difference between a democracy and a republic, blame your public schools, and then go look it up.

The 9/11 commission even established a connection between Al Quaeda and Iraq. Lets see here, Al Quaeda is a worldwide network with cells in a majority of countries around the world (including the United States, Canada, and the UK). But naturally they didn't exist in Iraq.....right? By the way, if you believe that, I have a beach front condo in the middle of Kansas you might be interested in.
Sure, Saddam was perfectly willing

So what is your solution? I hear people slam Bush for his "egotism and lack of foresight", but I never hear any other plan. At least he is doing something, and not just talking about it. Puzzling, isn't it? As I recall, even democrats voted in favor of this war. And yes, soldiers have died. It tends to happen in a war you know. And before you call me a chicken hawk, I'll have you know that I was there the first time around in 91'. We should be ashamed as Americans for pulling out the first time. It lead to the deaths of countless thousands of Iraqis at the hands of this guy you seem to have so much admiration for. They thought we were going to help them then, and they rose up only to watch us pull out and almost say "just kidding!". In my eyes, this is setting the record straight with the Iraqi people. It is an atonement for the sin of the elder Bush.
Thanks,
DJ

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On 27 Oct 2005 21:37:30 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@cox.net wrote:
<snip>

It figures that anyone who considers bullying a reasonable solution would also consider the only alternative is to be a wuss.
TWS
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