Current Count - As Of 10/18/05

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On 21 Oct 2005 15:01:21 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote:

That isn't an exit strategy, that is winning. The stuff you talk about after "Unconditional surrender of Japan and Germany" had nothing to do with the end of hostilities. It was our choice.

Again, not an exit strategy, it is called winning. We imposed stupid conditions afterwards, but they were of our choosing and were not reasons why Germany surrendered.

Again, winning is not an exit strategy - it is winning.

Ditto again

OK, you may be right. Here I thought we won, but maybe we just fought with someone who had an "exit strategy" so they left without winning and with us still intact and stronger for the effort..

Sounds like winning again.

If you don't call Korea a loss, I just don't think you understand the concept of losing

It was clear when Kissinger was "negotiating" in Paris that we were trying ti find a way to surrender without looking too stupid too quickly. North Vietnam agreed to stay above their border (after we bombed the ll out of them to get that agreement) and we looked the other way while they immediately broke that "agreement". We were whipped in any reasonable sense of the word and we gave up and ran away. Probably a good thing and probably something we should have done years earlier - as soon as we knew that we were unwilling to actually fight the war. Wars of attrition are senseless and we just might be allowing the Iraq war to be just that. If you are unwilling to fight a war as a war, then just give up and go home in defeat. Better to be defeated early than lose thousands while being defeated slowly. Better yet to win, but I don't think we have the will to do so.
Dave Hall

Saddam didn't seem to understand that he had been beaten. Kinda like you and Korea I think.

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Dave Hall wrote:

After winning, you can exit and go home.
But we did NOT go home after winning WWII we stayed for a number of years. The Marshall Plan was the exit strategy for Europe and MacArthur's plan (whatever it was called) for Japan was our exit trategy there. The American occupation of Japan has ended, e.g. we exited. We still have NATO troops in Germany, but not a lot. Most have exited.
Perhaps you were not aware that US troops occuopied part of Germany and Japan after WWII.

Just how many US troops remained in Europe after WWI? I daresay we exited after we won.

Again, after winning you can exit. But again, we didn't exit. We occupied those islands until autonomous governments were established. The establishment of those autonomous (and independent of Spain) governments was the exit strategy.
Maybe you didn't know that we occupied Puerto Rico, Cuba, and the Phillipines after the Spanish American War.

Again the formerly Confederate States were occupied by Federal Troops after winning the Civil War. The exit strategy was Reconstruction. Perhaps you never studied Reconstruction in school and didn't think to google the term when you saw me use it.

Did we annex Canada, as planned?

Yes. Of course there was no exit strategy for the US, we were already home.

Where was the border before the war, where is it now? Looks like a draw to me--unless you consider a successful defense to be a victory.

We didn't exit the region either.

Exactly how much of South Korea did the Communists capture and hold to the present day?

Well isn't that interesting since you now deny that winning is an "exit strategy".
Your exact words: "That isn't an exit strategy, that is winning." the contrapositive of which is: "Winning is not an exit strategy."

As far as that goes, we already won in Iraq, back in 2003.

--

FF


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snipped-for-privacy@spamcop.net wrote:

That's a very good point, and one I'd not considered. I did assume that (at least) one of the reasons for Iraq was our inability to catch OBL or Omar, the reasons we went into Afghanistan in the first place - Iraq would divert attention from Afghanistan - hoo,boy has it ever :-).
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Todd Fatheree wrote:

A Declaration of War compels the President to go to war. An authorizaion under the war powers act permits him to wage or not, at his discretion and unless Congress intervenes again.
Three arguments against Bush:
1) He presented false and misleeding information (remember the forged Niger-Iraq correspondence?) to obtain passage of the War Powers resolution IRT Iraq.
2) He abused the discretion by proceeding with the invasion despite the best ineligence showing that Iraq had not WMD stockpiles or programs.
3) He has violated Treaty obligations and US law in his conduct as commander in Chief. The Bybee memo, in particular contradicts both.
--

FF


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1) They voted last weekend.
2) There's millions of purple fingers.
3) You can't fix 1 or 2.

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Schuster wrote:

Neither 1) nor 2) above needs to be fixed.

3) above can be fixed.
All three may be mitigated by legal and political action.
--

FF


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On 20 Oct 2005, Todd Fatheree sez:

We're talking *current* events here, Todd.
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Another little pissant crying about dead soldiers.
Listen, punk, soldiers die. They know that when they sign on.
You don't know jack except to post some numbers. You've never served. If you had ever served, you would know to post names, not numbers, punk.
Take your political bent and shove it up your candy ass.
Your political bullshit is nauseating to those that have served, idiot.
C Co, 2d Bn, 75th Inf. 1981-1990 The Best There Is Sua Sponte

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Schuster wrote:

Your asininity is nauseating to others who have served, asshole.
Sure, soliders die. It is much better if those who die do it for reasons other than those dreamed up by a lying politician who takes the country to war on false premises, and then tries to dream up new reasons almost daily.
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Ever watched a soldier die? Didn't think so. I doesn't matter at all the politics of the reasons.
It's just death. Ugly. Bloody. Strange sounds coming from your bud next to you.
You make me puke. You've never been there, you little panty licker. STFU!!
Take your political bent and shove it up your undoctrinated ass!
C Co, 2d Bn, 75th Inf. 1981-1990 The Best There Is Sua Sponte

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I'm curious, where did you see action?
Panama, Grenada?
John E.

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Both.

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Schuster wrote:

Damn. Now there's a way for you to convince others that your point of view is right.
Piss up a rope, twit.
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Again, you show that you haven't served.
Soldiers don't die for any political reason. They die because they got hit. Idiot.
Please don't reduce the effort into some political bullshit of yours. The soldiers went into battle because the Congress authorized them to. They thought it proper. The Commander In Chief ordered them to. He thought it worthy. The CO told them to.
I fought the best I could, even when they told me the parameters had changed and I was probably going to die before I hit the ground.
I hereby stand and piss on you, you non-serving little penis!
C Co, 2d Bn, 75th Inf. 1981-1990 The Best There Is Sua Sponte

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Schuster wrote:

OK, you've proven you're a big bad jock with a good command of obscenities.
Now either learn how to disagree with others over an issue without sounding like a retarded redneck or go away.
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Oh,
You've never served either.
Kind of bothers the little thing, eh Larry?

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Schuster wrote:

You know, this may come as a surprise to you, but military service, with or without combat, is not a requirement for one to hold and express an opinion on the Iraq war. Nor is there anything essential in your words that tends to make one believe that you actually served. I know a bunch of redneck former Marines who sound pretty much like you, and, of course, they did serve, some in combat, some not. That doesn't make their opinion more valid than that of my wife, who didn't serve. In fact, their opinions may be more valid than those of Dick Cheney, who had "better things to do" than serve. Or of George W. Bush, who was too busy to show up for the last year of his laughable military service. Let's see. John Kerry served, and in combat, but he was branded a coward by the draft dodger you guys elected, the man who couldn't find his way to an ANG base to report, but who is now leading this country.
You, sir, are a fool.
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Never had an interest in the Marines. Sua Sponte.
I already did your wife. You can have her, she's fat and doesn't lubricate well. Fix it.
John Kerry served....himself.
Ask him about helping his bud dying next to him. He can't remember.
Ask him about a cut on his finger......he'll give you hours......

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Schuster wrote:

I thought his wife was in a coma...
--

FF


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Far as I was concerned, he "proved" it with his second post.

He "went away" days ago on my newsreader...
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