Craftsman tools are just fine,

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if they have no moving parts !
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wrote:

You best be havin' yer head on a swivel, keepin' a lookout fer Uncle Jessie.
Thomas J. Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)
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Um, OK, and your point is?
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Let's see--I have the following Craftsman tools WITH moving parts:
1) 9" RAS - purchased in 1973 and still going strong 2) 10" table saw - almost a year old, and it works great 3) 3/8 corded variable reversible drill - about 18 years old & still works & looks like it's new. It replaced the Craftsman Type 1 drill I bought in '73 that was stolen in '86. 4) Fancy ROS - works great 5) 13.2V Cordless drill - works great after almost 2 years 6) Scroll saw - at least 25 years old, still going strong 7) 7-1/4" circular saw - about 18 years old, still works great. Replaced another Craftman tool that was stolen. 8) Electric staple gun - works great after 25 years, could use a new power cord 9) Craftsman Pro Fixed/Plunge router kit - 3 months old and the BEST router I've ever owned 10) Fixed router - 15 years old, still works good. 11) 4 x 21" belt sander - about 15 years old--still works good.
I got the new Craftsman Pro router because I wanted more power (2-1/4 HP vs the 1.5 HP the old one has, and the new one will take 1/2" bits as well as 1/4"
In short, I take exception to Hoyt's implication that Craftsman power tools aren't any good.
--Steve
Hoyt Weathers wrote:

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On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:51:19 -0800, Steve <Steve> wrote:

[extensive list of wasted money snipped]

There are two kinds of wooddorkers: those who have bought Craftsman power tools and learned from the experience that there are much better choices, and those who have bought Craftsman power tools and never get it.
--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
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You left out the third category: Those who just can't justify the cost of the high-end stuff like what Norm has in his shop. The Craftsman stuff does the job, and does it well, and the prices don't break the bank.
What exactly is it that I don't get?
LRod wrote:

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snip

better warranty coverage/support than anything sold by Harbor Freight.
Dave
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On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:15:02 -0800, the inscrutable "Teamcasa"

THAT, sir, is disputable.
========================================================= I drank WHAT? + http://www.diversify.com --Socrates + Web Application Programming
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Well Uncle Jessie and Steve have their opinions and I sure as the devil will not try to change them...
I purchased my original "set of powertools" over a 4to 5 year time frame from Sears in the late 60's early 70's...
Today I still use the following... 1. RAS....works fine as a cout off saw...has not moved off a 90 degree cut in 25 to 30 years...but it can cross cut accurate enough for my uses...not covered by the recall but worth more then the 100 bucks they would give me for it... 2. Lathe.... this thing is not all that great..lucky for me that I do not do a lot of turning..if I did I would junk it in a hurry 3. Stationary 6in belt and 9 in disc sander... well it still works just fine...belt tracks right on...but I have not had a disc glues on in years.. 4. 12 in Band Saw... not really a bad saw...does what I want but I have gotten the bug to do some resawing that exceeds its limits..so It will be replaced in the very near future... 5. Floor model drill press... Sorry but this thing has been a workhorse and I would not trade it even up for a brand new Delta or Jet ... Its a keeper without doubt
Wow...I did not realize that I had so many Craftman tools still in the shop... I do NOT use the RAS nor the Lathe much...but the others I use almost daily...
Does this mean I would buy another Craftsman power tool..
Heck No... too many much better tools on the market at better prices and that do a better job ...
Remember the newest of my tools are now 30 to 35 years old and all seem to be built a little "tougher" then the new ones "look" to be.. I say look to be because I just never stop and look as I walk past the Tool department at Sears...heck I do not even walk into the store all that much...
Bob Griffiths
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snip Dave said:

to do so. As for me, I'll pass.
Dave
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Teamcasa wrote:

Man, what an endorsement...I'm sure K-Mart management will be after you to head their new ad campaign! :)
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Nope....3 kinds...you left out the most obvious denizens of this forum...the TOOL SNOB.
bill

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OK. LROD... LOL Do you not get it? Bosch is building the red outer that looks like the Bosch 1617EVS. Dewalt did or still builds the black and silver plate joiner, and Dewalt did build the drills.

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On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 01:17:45 GMT, "Leon"

Well, that may be, but I have my own list:
1960s era 10" table saw. Original fence was a POS. I replaced it with a '90s Sears fence. Much better, but no Bies. Overall, usable, but just no comparison to my Uni. 1960s era jigsaw, er scrollsaw they call them now. POS. Oil filled crank shaft got oil on everything within 3'. 1972 saber saw, er, jigsaw they call them now. POS. Cranking down on one of the two screws to hold the blade (and you had to) cracked the casting. Couldn't make a square cut. No comparison to my Bosch. 1972 RAS. Okay, but no DeWalt and won't stay in alignment past a couple of bumps. 1972 belt sander. POS. Can't wait to replace it--just as soon as I have a need for a belt sander. 1972 router. The mother of all POS. It's when I discovered the ARHA "feature.". 1972 drill press. Usable, but developed a vertical slop in the quill that I cannot fix. No comparison to my Delta. 1974 bandsaw. Underpowered, underweight, undersized. No comparison to my Delta. 1975 jointer. POS never would line up right. You could make the infeed table coplanar with the outfeed, OR you could raise and lower the infeed table, but you couldn't do both. Need I say DJ20? 1980 lathe. Odd size Morse tapers and spindle thread. No comparison to my Delta.
Last summer my S-I-L bought one of their routers (Ryobi POS). Guess what? ARHA. I gave him a P-C 690 for Christmas.
That's 0 for 10 or 11 depending on how you score my S-I-L's router. You don't have to hit me over the head with a 2x4. I absolutely do get it. The lathe is the last Sears tool I will EVER buy; I don't care who makes them. I don't even trust that if Bosch makes their jigsaw it's the same jigsaw as Bosch's jigsaw.
One may ask, "why did you buy so many Sears tools if they were POS?" It's more or less a fair question, but basically back in the '70s there weren't any places to buy Deltas or Powermatics. Or not that I was aware of. Schools and professionals had them, but not us garage 'dorkers. And they commanded more of a premium over the Sears than they do today.
Shoot, because there was no Norm or Boob or David J. we average DIY guys hardly even knew those tools existed. We couldn't ask Jon Eakes. There was no Scott Phillips, no Ron Hazelton, no David Thiel. There was no Jet, no Chiwanese tools, no Harbor Freight (thank god). A lot of you guys don't realize how good we have it nowadays compared to then.
I don't even give the hand tools a pass anymore. Go to the borg and buy a Klein #2 Phillips screwdriver. Use it hard for a week. Then go get a Sears and use it hard for an hour. That's all it'll take. The wrenches are okay, but don't be convinced by the warranty. When Ace Hardware started warranting their Master Mechanic line of wrenches with the same warranty back in the '90s I figured it out. It's an actuarial thing, not a measure of tool quality. Just like rebates. Practically everyone warrants their wrenches for life, now.
Want to call me a tool snob? Go ahead. I wear that tag proudly. I've used low end and I've used high end. I may not be able to do better work with the high end, but I do easier work since I'm not fighting the tool, and if you don't understand what the simple pleasure of using a good tool adds to the project there's no explaining it to you. And probably no point in you buying the tools I buy.
Life is too short for third rate tools. Although in all fairness, I guess I should acknowledge that if I hadn't wallowed in so much Craftsman I may never have truly appreciated my Deltas, Makitas, Bosches, Porter-Cables, Milwaukees, Kleins, etc. when I got them. But if I could keep just one person from having to learn that lesson the way I did...
--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
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Pardon my ignorance, but what is the "ARHA" feature?
wrote:

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I don't recall the exact words but something like, Automatic bit adjustment while it is running, ready or not, feature.
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Automatic (or Autonomous) Router Height Adjustment
Not a good thing.
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My older Craftsman router did that to me ONCE. I didn't have the collet tight enough, and the bit started descending while I was routing the control cavity in a guitar body--the very first one I made, over two years ago. Cut right thru the body into the MDF benchtop underneath. I learned to make sure that collet was REALLY TIGHT, and it never happened again. I assumed it was my fault, and not the tool's. Seems like experience has confirmed that, since it has never happened again.
This router, BTW, while suitable for light -duty work, was not up to the heavy load I put on it, and that's why I bought the new one at Christmas (the Craftsman Pro/Bosch). It cuts deeper and smoother than the old one ever did, and it seems to do it effortlessly, with the same bits. 50% more power and a nice rigid aluminum motor housing make quite a difference in how a router behaves. Very happy with it so far.
Not sure what to do with the old one--any suggestions?
On the topic at hand (the quality or lack thereof of Craftsman power tools)--I'm not claiming that all Craftsman power tools are uniformly good--just that in general my experience with them has been positive. The ones I have work well for my needs, and I see no point in replacing them unless they break.
For example, in the case of the Radial Arm Saw--Sears offered to buy the motor from me for $100 (which was only $8 less than I paid for the whole thing in '73) and I declined. That saw has performed well for me for all these years, although I haven't used it much since I got the table saw last year.
--Steve
Patriarch wrote:

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Keep it handy and just grab it when you need to ease an edge. Don't put any bit that pulls out, like a dovetail, in it.
Steve
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Patriarch wrote:

Actually, it's Automatic Random Height Adjustment. Note the "random" part. Oh yeah, tm Steve Wallace, the guy who coined the initialization.

Unless you meant it to do that.
UA100
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