Craftsman tablesaw...that bad?

[Charlie Self]

Good luck finding a place to test drive ANY tool these days, even when you don't go on-line to buy. Sears has multi-line merchandise, and I'm reasonably sure the lady buying some new panties isn't going to be thrilled to find sawdust in them when she gets home. The same holds true even at HD and Lowe's, where testing tools could readily fling dust into washing machines and telephone systems.

Most of the distributors are now gone in this area. They primarily served two markets, furniture manufacturers and schools. The schools mostly bailed on woodworking classes a decade or so ago, and most of the furniture places are in the process of folding their tents, in anticipation of moving to China or Viet Nam or a similar place. But what the hell. That's where most of the tools are coming from now. And when I say most, I don't mean 51%. It is more like 90% and rising.

[Duane Bozarth]

...

I think the ones w/ retail/display outlets are in most places....I don't consider the Borgs nor Sears as distributors, anyway, though. I know of one place in Raleigh (or at least did a couple of years ago when I had sufficient time while visiting son to take a side trip--didn't have the time this past summer). There were places still in Knoxville when I left there 5 years ago, and I "test drove" the PM66 and Model 27 at McFeeley's in Lynchburg...but that's been over 25 years ago now...

I'm sure when I go for the moulder and larger planer I'll just bite the bullet and go w/ one of the big boys and be done w/ it...the mill shop in Wichita has a new numeric-controlled machine they ran the siding for the barn through for me--it's nice but $25k is about twice what I want to try to stay within....

[bob]

In a nutshell, why buy a Craftsman when for the same money you can have an equivalent unit from Jet, Delta, Grizzly or General? If you have to ask about the quality of the unit, it probably ain't there.

I had a Craftsman for over 20 years that served me well as my first saw. When I got serious about woodworking and demanded exactness and performance, I had to upgrade the saw with better wings and a "real" fence (Incra, not the POS that came with it that never stayed aligned). After spending 300 bucks on upgrades, I ended up taking the upgrades off, selling the old saw to a newbie, and buying a Jet contractor saw. I never regretted it, other than not taking the big leap to a cabinet saw.

Bob

[AAvK]

Maybe Shop Fox? Same company and factory.

[Lee Gordon]

At the risk of initiating thread drift, I would just like to point out that this is most certainly not the first rule of journalism and I would be willing to guess it's not a rule of journalism at all. If a reporter already knows the answers to all the questions he is about to ask, he shouldn't be wasting anybody's time asking them. This is not to suggest that he ought to be completely ignorant (it's a good idea to have at least some familiarity with the subject), but if he asks only questions for which he already knows the answers, he is unlikely to unearth any new and potentially useful information. Of course there are always exceptions and one instance where this "rule" does come into play is in a TV newscast when, at the conclusion of a live on-the-scene report, the anchorman asks the field reporter a follow-up question, it is usually one that they have discussed beforehand so the anchorman doesn't ask a stupid question and the reporter doesn't look foolish because he was asked something he can't answer.

Lee

[Charlie Self]

As far as I know, McFeely's is totally mail order now. And doesn't sell stationary power tools anyway.

I know years ago there was a distributor in Roanoke, but it aimed mostly at school based customers even back then. I don't know if it still exists, and the ability of the average person to gain entry to such places is exceptionally limited anyway, and, AFAIK, always has been.

[Doug Payne]

According to their Web site they do. It's just a bit convoluted.

From

"To purchase an item weighing over 70lbs., contact a US based freight forwarder and include their contact information when requesting a quote. (A Freight Forwarder is a shipping company that provides export services for shipping large items overseas.) A small list of Freight Forwarders can be found here: Upon our receipt of payment we will send the shipment to the freight forwarder, who will then arrange for international shipping. Our flat rate shipping charges cover domestic shipping to the US freight forwarder; customers and the freight forwarder make arrangements for shipping the order to the final destination. All taxes, fees and duties are the customer?s responsibility."

[bob]

[Clint]

Well, bite my tongue, and slap my hiney... Looks like they do. Of course, for whatever reason, the paragraph right above the one you quoted (for shipments less than 70 pounds), they specifically exclude Canada. Don't know if that's what I saw before, or if their policies have changed, or if I e-mailed them and got a different reply... Anywhoo, it would be interesting to see how much a saw would end up costing, landed in someone's garage up here.

Cl>

[A.J. Hamler]

No, it's not. The first rule of journalism is that there are no rules. If a journalist allows himself to be completely governed by rules, he misses out on many, many excellent opportunities to elicit useful and interesting information from interview subjects, especially in one-on-one situations.

[bob]

Nah, they're cool. Public broadcasting :)

[Duane Bozarth]

I really don't know--I left Lynchburg in roughly '80 and it's now been

15 years or maybe more since I've even been back to visit old buddies at B&W. At the time I was there they were general distributor for almost everything our type wanted as toys :) -- primarily wholesale, of course, but also would handle OTC sales. I ordered the PM stuff through them for direct pick up in McMinnville as I was in the process of moving to Oak Ridge at the time. Knoxville had TN Mining as well as a Delta factory support/repair center which also had a sale/showroom in those days.

I know the place, but can't think of the name at present...I don't know its fate, either. A buddy and I were doing decoupage plaques at the time--he had dropped out of school after starting on his own w/ a single spindle old Craftsman light-duty shaper peddling them through Davis Paint in Lynchburg. Davis was selling them like hotcakes and financed him to buy a larger planer and shaper and gave him shop space in their basement (one of the big old retail/manufacturing multi-story brick buildings downtown w/ 3 levels of basement of 10-12'ft height and massive wood beam/columns...pretty spooky in the "mausoleum" :) ). I was brand new out of school and saw ad where he was selling the small shaper and answered it. We then built stuff together and grew it to something like 40,000 lb-ft/yr turning the high-platform shoe bottoms for Lynchburg Shoe. Consequently, we had access to anywhere...

Ah, the memories... :)

[nospambob]

[Duane Bozarth]

Lee Gordon wrote: ...

No, they almost invariably look foolish (and waste time in the process)...

[tom_murphy]

You're right, I did not realize that.

[Doug Payne]

Yeah, I dunno what's up with that. It makes little sense.

[captmikey]

I would agree with a few others that the price is inflated. I'm not even sure about that particular saw, but if it's a direct drive I'd stay away from it. If its a real contractor's saw, and you can get it for $300 then maybe its OK. I've used a Craftsman 113 series (Emerson USA Built) for the past 30 years since new and they don't build them like that any more. Replaced with a Unisaw... what else.

[A.J. Hamler]

*whew* For a minute there, I thought they might be call-in talk show hosts.

A.J.

bob wrote:

[tim124c41]

The guy who owns Grizzly is the brother of the guy who owns BusyBee. Seems they've made a deal not to sell to each other's customers.

BusyBee doesn't carry as much as Grizzly, but what they do carry likely comes out of the same factories in Asia.

[tim124c41]

Sears Canada is notorious for inflated list prices so they can have big "sales" every week. I've found the clerks in their tool department to be forthcoming about when particular items will go on sale, and what the price will be. You can probably find out what the lowest sale price for this saw is by asking. I suspect that it will fall around C$500. The sears.ca site doesn't show the store sale prices.

A friend and his wife were shopping for a stove at a Sears Outlet store. They found one they liked, but the pot drawer on the bottom stuck. They called over a manager and negotiated about a 40% extra discount. Turned out to be bent sheet metal around the drawer slide that Don bent back with his fingers. So, their managers can deal for an interested customer. Knowing the best store sale price on that saw can get you some leverage at the outlet store. Pointing out any defects may get you more.

The older Sears contractor saws were pretty reasonable -- obviously not as good as a cabinet saw, but far better than a benchtop saw. The newer saws have a different manufacturer, but look to me to be more or less clones of the older ones. The fence, however, is a dramatic improvement over the old fences. Contractor saws are probably all made in China anymore, so there may not be much to differentiate one brand from another as far as the saw goes. After sale service is going to be the big issue. Sears does a good job with that.

Good luck,

Tim