Craftsman tablesaw (old)

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I have old Craftsman 1 hp tablesaw that is just dogging out on me when I'm ripping 3/4" plywood.
What can I do to get this old dog performing better? Does the blade have that much of a factor or could there be other issues?
The model is 113.29992 it might be from the late 60's. the blade on there now is a new Black and Decker Pirranah.
Thanks for any advice
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"DJayhawk" wrote:

A 1 HP motor is a little light for cutting ply.
If you are operating at 120V, re-wire for 240V operation.
It will make a major difference.
While not inexpensive, a 1-1/2 HP motor will also make a big difference.
Not familiar with the blade, but I never found Black and Decker blades to be anything but low initial cost.
I would look at Freud for a blade.
Have fun.
Lew
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On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 19:26:11 -0800, Lew Hodgett wrote:

I'm not sure that's true. I've got a 1948 Delta with what I think is the original motor. It says 1 HP but is so large and heavy I can't lift it. I suspect the rating is true HP, not "peak".
An acquaintance who rebuilds motor for a living warned me to never get rid of that motor. He said regardless of HP it had twice as much torque as a modern motor.
It does bog down a bit on 8/4 hard maple, but most contractor style saws would.
If the OP's saw has a similar motor, he might find an upgrade was a downgrade. It doesn't sound like that's the case, but I just wanted to point out that HP ratings don't tell the whole story.
If his motor is more of the modern style, comparing amperage might be more informative.
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"Lew Hodgett" wrote:

"Larry Blanchard" wrote:

The reason older motors have so much iron in them has to do with the insulating varnish on the copper windings.
Old time varnishes just could not handle the temperatures that today's varnishes are designed to handle.
As a result, larger wire sizes were required for the windings in order to be able handle the current required to develop rated the HP of the design.
The number of turns remain constant between yesterday's and today's motors for the rated HP of the design.
Larger wire size dictates bigger slots in the stator to hanle the wire bundle, which dictates a larger diameter stator, which dictates larger housings thus a larger, heavier motor.
Lew
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On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:15:54 -0800, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Thanks Lew, that's useful information. I wonder when the use of "peak" horsepower became common?
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"Larry Blanchard" wrote:

"Peak" HP is a marketing gimmick that ONLY applies to some specific applications such as vacuum cleaners.
NEMA motors are truly specified according to design (Design B, Design C, Design D), which defines the torque vs: RPM of the motor and true output HP for the real world.
Lew
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On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 19:37:30 -0800, Lew Hodgett wrote:

That may be all it *applies* to, but it's used on just about everything. Looked at router horsepower claims lately? Or any power tool from Sears?
I notice that Lowes is advertising a couple of Steel City "1.5HP" table saws on their website. When you check the specs, the amps are shown as "0.0". Guess that's one way of obfuscating the facts :-).
On a more hopeful note, I see a lot of products are now just stating amps - no horsepower rating.
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On 11/16/2012 1:15 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

That's a part of the story; there's much more going on besides-- :)
The difference between the magnetic steels used/available, air gap, etc., etc., all effect the overall efficiency and hence the power output per unit input is variable w/ generally older motors not being as efficient.
I-sqR losses may go down w/ the larger diameter if used, but that's counteracted by longer length so isn't as large a win as just the area factor alone as well as changing the field saturation...
All in all, it's tough to make generalizations other than often the advantage in the older motors is that cost constraints weren't nearly as big a deal then so they had motors which rated better than those on more recent equipment where price point became so much a competitive issue.
The torque effect noted above is a valid one on the older larger physical rotor designs -- I have a WWII era hybrid Walker-Turner Rockwell 3/4" spindle shaper w/ the original motor that is physically as large as more recent 5 hp motors. It's mass is helpful for tough jobs and noticeable in comparison w/ the PM Model 27 of roughly mid-80s vintage and same (3) hp rating. I'd have to go to the shop to look up comparative LRA and FLA but I'm sure the old Rockwell is fair much higher draw than the newer PM.
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On 11/16/2012 12:53 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

My Sears motor has a part number of 113.12170. It is 115 volts 60 cycles and runs at 3450 rpms. It is a capacitor start type motor and requires a 20 amp circuit.
If you are luck it will run on 15 amps, but will run slow.
I have one 20 amp circuit in the garage of my 4 year old home and that is in the ceiling. I want to put several more 20 amp circuits into the garage but then we got obamainated. On my last house I had to add 20 amp circuits to the garage and that house was 40 years old.
OP make sure you are using the saw on the proper circuit.
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On 11/15/2012 8:31 PM, DJayhawk wrote:

I basically had the same saw. I put a good quality "REGULAR kerf blade on it and it made all the difference in the world. Keep in mind that you need to have your saw tuned properly. Read that as every thing as close to perfect alignment as possible.
You can put at thin kerf blade on it to cut faster but over all not better.
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I know I need to get a better quality blade and plan on doing that soon. I thought about re-wiring it for 220 but wasn't confident it would make a big enough difference.
Where should I look for a 1.5 hp motor? Sears?
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"DJayhawk" wrote:

It will make a big difference, especially with a better blade. ------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------- WW Grainger, McMaster-Carr?
Check Amazon also. Not sure if the sell motors.
Lew
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On 11/16/2012 12:42 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

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"Lew Hodgett" wrote: =================================================

==============================================Forgot to mention how important having a large enough power cable is for a saw.
Your existing 1HP motor will draw from 12-15 amps @ 120 volts.
To minimize line losses, I'd use a 10-2/ground cable.
If you operate @ 240V, motor will operate @ 6-8 amps which means you could use 12-2/ground, but I would still use 10-2/ground cable.
You can buy a molded cordset (15-25 Ft) from a supply house, cut off the receptacle and wire it into saw.
It's the lowest cost way to get a heavy duty power cable. Have fun
Lew
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On 11/15/2012 09:14 PM, DJayhawk wrote:

thought about re-wiring it for 220 but wasn't confident it would make a big enough difference.

http://www.grizzly.com/catalog/2012/Main/260
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On 11/15/2012 10:14 PM, DJayhawk wrote:

If as you say the blade is new even tho the B&D aren't the best you can buy, it's not likely the major problem as far as that goes. What's more important is # teeth, grind, hook angle and whether it's even close to being in line. The _style_ of the blade for the purpose is important; the brand, not so much.
Rewiring won't make any real difference unless your wiring is _severely_ undersized but if 240V is available might as well as it's a nearly trivial operation. If you do upgrade the motor to larger size then you'll likely need to, anyway for an existing circuit or you'll start tripping it.

Local ads, criags list kind of places, the local radio station call-in trade show if got one, call the electric motor repair shops for used...
On motors I'd avoid the HF and the ilk super-cheapies unless there's a walkin store in town and there's a swap-out guarantee for more than just the 30 days or they do happen to have some heavier-duty motors...generally my experience has been that their motors let the smoke out pretty quickly.
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On 11/15/2012 11:01 PM, Leon wrote:

I have a saw from the same period. It is a Sears 10" Table Saw 113 2990301 with a 1hp motor. I inherited the saw and replaced the blade my father in law had with a 10" 60 tooth Carbide blade (As I remember it was $50 or $60 about 14 years ago from Sears .)
The better blade made a world of difference. I routinely rip 1 X 4's with it and have no problem.
There is one thing you can do to improve performance. Over the years sawdust and wood chips accumulate in the motor itself. Mine finally stopped when a wood chip got into the contacts. Before spending any significant money (a 1.5 hp motor would be a couple of hindered) I would disassemble the motor and clean out all of the creases.
First a word for the bureaucrats: USE GOOD PRACTICES WHEN WORKING WITH THINGS ELECTRICAL, BE CAREFUL NOT TO BREAK WIRES OR TEAR ANY INSTALLATION CAREFULLY REASSEMBLE ANY PART THAT COMES OUT HAS TO GO BACK IN, AND NOT ADDITIONAL PARTS AND MATERIAL SHOULD BE ADDED Now back to our show.
If it as mine, there are three? screws that connect the right end of the case to the left end. Remove the screws and the motor comes into three parts. clean each and clean and reoil the bushings. pull the rotor out of the center part an clean the surface and check of wear. Once it is back together, use a vacuum to periodically clean the openings in the motor and add oil to the oil ports at each end of the motor to keep the bushing oiled.
I do agree with what was previously posted that for ripping 3/4 plywood I would look at a bigger motor. However if this is a one shot thing just feed it slowly.
My saw has been from Arizona to North Carolina, then to Indiana and back. So if it was originally aligned correctly it should still be OK but I would check everything just in case.
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Thanks Keith! I'll look into cleaning up the motor before upgrading it. How much of a factor does the belt have in performance? The belt doesn't look bad at all but the saw has been in grandpas basement shop for over 10 years unused.
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On 11/15/2012 10:50 PM, DJayhawk wrote:

much of a factor does the belt have in performance? The belt doesn't look bad at all but the saw has been in grandpas basement shop for over 10 years unused.

A better belt will help the saw run smoother but not necessarily increase cutting capacity/speed. FWIW I never changed mine.
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On Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:50:36 -0800 (PST), DJayhawk

much of a factor does the belt have in performance? The belt doesn't look bad at all but the saw has been in grandpas basement shop for over 10 years unused. I have the same or similar saw, c. 1983. With factory belts and pulleys, it wouldn't pass the nickle test with the nickle laying flat.
I installed new pulleys and link-blets, and ever since it'll pass the test easily.
After-market belts and pulleys make a big difference for accuracy and cut quality, but won't have much effect on power.
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