Craftsman Compucarver Machine

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I've also been told not to ask more than one question at a time, and to number them. As if more information is bad, or one can't remember what the question is/was. I don't know what you said, whats yur question, theres too much information, only one question. Number these. Don't ask any questions. Uhhh, I can't help you. Leave me alone.
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bent wrote: | (Even I can see now; overall) why this could/should/would help, it | doesn't | solve the problem, but what do you mean by attribution?: By name?: | mentioning the immediately preeeding poster, or poster you are | respondidng | to. "To the group?" | | I often think I am just giving info, don't even think about sentence | structure, TWIMC ,and as previously stated is.... "about the topic" | | QQQ | What is attribution | aww forget it | | Overall I hope someone learned something, besides me.
Look at the top line of /this/ post. Any doubt about who wrote the stuff I'm responding to? That line ("bent wrote:") makes clear that it's your post I'm quoting and responding to. That line attributes (gives you credit for) the quoted stuff.
Not all posts show up on all news servers; and posts that do show up don't necessarily appear in the order that they're sent (someone on the other side of the world - or even down the block might not see this post for a half hour after I send it).
The attribution helps to clarify who wrote what. If you snip all of the previous post(s) and/or remove the attribution(s), it begins to appear that you're having a somewhat strange discussion with just yourself. This makes readers antsy and, if continued, they'll begin ignoring what you write. It has about the same value as eye contact in a face-to-face discussion.
FWIW, grammar and spelling do count on usenet. There are no language police; but the ability to express a thought coherently and correctly contribute to credibility - almost as much as knowing what you're talking about. :-)
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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Sometimes it gets out of hand, but generally speaking I can go back and fill in the gray areas with simple text in brackets and it all makes sense. There is anything really important missing. Just a lot of it. Maybe I'll think along these lines in the future. I'm not on the subject of rocket science, and I don't want to feel scared about saying something (obvious afterall) quickly.
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Tue, Jan 9, 2007, 11:03pm snipped-for-privacy@rogers.com (bent) now burble: Sometimes it gets out of hand, but generally speaking I can go back and fill in the gray areas with simple text in brackets and it all makes sense. There is anything really important missing. Just a lot of it. Maybe I'll think along these lines in the future. I'm not on the subject of rocket science, and I don't want to feel scared about saying something (obvious afterall) quickly.
"Generally", eh? Which means that you "often" don't know what's going on.
"There is anything really important missing. Just a lot of it." What the Hell is that supposed to mean?
"I don't want to feel scared about saying something (obvious afterall) quickly." Well, looks like you're sure not scared of saying something stupid. Quickly.
JOAT To listen is an effort, and just to hear is no merit. A duck hears also. - Igor Stravinsky
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it very obvious you have nothing better to do than follow me around correcting my synatx and grammar
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The OP is complaining about the content, someone else is pissed off about some other.
All I can say is I am a man of steel. I do the best I can at all times. I build cars. Please do not not treat me badly wherever I go.
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----- BENT scribbled: ---------

Posts often get to Usenet servers at different times, if at all. Don't assume what you see as a thread is what others will see.

I often have no idea what you're referring to, so I skip your post.

Sure! Do you see how I left only the information I'm referencing? Try it! <G>
White (empty / blank) space between thoughts is also a valuable tool.
Barry
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maybe if anything
had to do with anything
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oh, that was for B A R R Y about what we were talking about before. I hope you see this in a timely fasion, and it answers your question
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bent wrote:

It certainly does. <G>
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STOP IT PLEASE!
I withdraw the original posted question. Wished I had not started it.
It was only an innocent and honest query which provoked more man-hours cost in computer time than the cost of the machine. I'm sorry I brought it up.
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I don't know anything about the machine. I have brought up a lot. Have you checked (maybe the sales promo page), the tooling it can use. The travel? If there was a ng for this machine it would all be written about this stuff; its code or on the subject of CAD. If it involved neither there would be no need for the newsgroup at all. I have explained all this.
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bent wrote:
<snip>

Quoting William James Hall from Harvard University in an article entitled "A Quick Guide to Newsgroup Etiquette",
"When you are following up someone's article, please summarize the parts of the article to which you are responding. This allows readers to appreciate your comments rather than trying to remember what the original article said. Summarizing on usenet is generally done by quoting excerpts of the original post. Quoted material is usually indicated by > marks at the beginnings of lines."
See: http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc-sci/netiquette.html
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
  Click to see the full signature.
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this is to do with the origin of my use of the term "etch-a-sketch". In a computer controlled m/c, say a compucarver, say you can put in a spinning in the x-y plane round-head router bit. Next say that you have to draw the part that you have to machine (with the round head router bit), OR you can write the code. If the part where to look like a square 3D cube, you would have to direct the cutter head to pivot/reposition its spinning axis into the x-z and y-z planes. Say you have to draw the part in the 3 standard principle orthographinc drawing views, Front, Top, and Right. To include all the features you have to image looking form an infinite distance away from F, T, or R positions, and include all the hidden lines (in the drawing) for machining. Imagine the object was a porsch 911. You do not make an infinite number of views so all points of the features of the car are perpedicular to the page. So how do you draw a front fender from the back of the car? No object has labels, just best for making the drawing, and back (of the car) can mean Left view in this example. You imagine what a drop of water would do if it landed on the very highest position of the line of that feature. As it follows gravity. You follow it, with your pencil/cursor. You have to either code yourself, or draw all features. This is as basic as it gets. btw JT I don't expect nothing, cept maybe constructive critism.
bent: Rarely would a program be written in G-code.
Morris Dovey: Eh? I'd guess that depends on the operation. More than 95% of the part programs used in my shop are hand-coded (I hand code 100% of the g-code part programs).
bent: yes, I guess it may be inverse in the ww field ,where not a lot isn't self-evident w/r/t features. Impossible with any 3D stuff. Not that there isn't 3D involved, but on a etch-a-sketch level. I bet one ornamental mantel "wing" in the compucarver is thousands of lines long, and probably not even know code if code is even available.
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in a metal part even an etch-a-sketch part program can be huge, and even though simple, copying the code can endless, with all the passes, without an APT, or canned cycles, or something to fill it in. How long are your programs, what initialization scheme is required (how much code involved), what machines can/do you use with code, , and how do you base the code (e.g. copied like the one before), and you use nothing but a Word Processor?
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bent wrote: | in a metal part even an etch-a-sketch part program can be huge, | and even though simple, copying the code can endless, with all | the passes, without an APT, or canned cycles, or something to | fill it in. How long are your programs,
Typically, fewer than a thousand lines. I do make heavy use of looping, subroutine calls, and confess to having hacked the controller code to invoke external programs to generate part program fragments that are executed on-the-fly and then discarded.
| what initialization scheme is required (how much code involved),
Not much - and I've written nearly all of the initialization code I'm using today. It's not unusual for my programs to start out by "discovering" the location (and sometimes the orientation) of the workpiece.
| what machines can/do you use with code,
I code for a ShopBot in that company's proprietary part language - which isn't a whole lot different from g-code except that it uses symbolic names for both variables and line labels - and it opens up _all_ of the machine parameters to the programmer.
I use strictly g-code for a small CNC router that I built in the shop. If you browse around at the link below, you can see both machines (and even some old ShopBot code).
| and how do you base the | code (e.g. copied like the one before), and you use nothing but a | Word Processor?
I was a programmer for a long time before I even heard of CNC. Programmers are said to be a lazy lot - we'll work awfully hard to avoid ever having to write a program more than once; and I'm probably one of the laziest...
I've hacked the ShopBot control software to allow a part program to cause the operating system to load, pass parameters to, and execute an external program, then give control back to the original part program so it can continue on. Typically these external programs examine the parameters and generate a custom part program fragment in a file - and when the original part program gets control back, it causes the just-created code to be executed (as if it were a canned cycle or subroutine call).
Taking this lazy approach has produced a library of re-usable code; which means that about the only time I need to do any significant amount of programming is when I do something that I haven't done before. It isn't a matter of modifying old code to do new jobs in the sense you describe - I re-use the exact same old code in a new context.
I do my code writing with gvim, a programming editor from the Unix world. I've set it up to do color highlighting to make different elements of the part programs appear in different colored type. It accepts/produces only ASCII text files.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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is it a a kind of block stop optional thing, where say on a TS-type thing, you can get the fence to roll into position and hold there until, either the sheets are pushed through by hand? or mechanically, and then you run a little bit (more) of the program at the next position, repeat, through "blocks" of the program?
In metal, everything is done: lights, secutity system, shipping, receiving, transport, speed, coolant, tool change, tool wear checks, SPC quality control (intermittent check of parts), rough & finish, auto clamping fixturing and part loading, pallette change and rotate, you know.
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bent wrote: | is it a a kind of block stop optional thing, where say on a TS-type | thing, | you can get the fence to roll into position and hold there until, | either the sheets are pushed through by hand? or mechanically, and | then you run a | little bit (more) of the program at the next position, repeat, | through "blocks" of the program?
Sortof. :-)
The whole setup is whatever seems appropriate for the job. Generally, I fixture as much as I can on the table (manually) and then turn the machine loose. Fixturing is wildly variable depending on the workpiece size and material - and might be vacuum or mechanical (anything from drill press vise to cam clamps to shop-made screw clamps to double-sided carpet tape or even bolting workpieces down).
Automatic tool changers and loading devices are more expensive than I've been able to spend for.
| In metal, everything is done: lights, secutity system, shipping, | receiving, transport, speed, coolant, tool change, tool wear | checks, SPC quality | control (intermittent check of parts), rough & finish, auto clamping | fixturing and part loading, pallette change and rotate, you know.
Yuppers - I'm aware of (if not expert with) a lot of this; but most of it requires way more resources than I can bring to bear. It'll have to wait until I have a dollar to spend on the winning lottery ticket. Meanwhile I just clunk along with my Armstrong loader/unloader/tool changer...
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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I may be mistaken about the need for for much more than on the fly parts in a lot of places, given the potential. $100G quickly makes sense if only to turn all day to a differnet Dia. from std. stock. It s the real big dollar industry setups, where a $mil is what that job running through there is, where they have AGVs that retrieve anything/everything up to including 30' long 3' Dia. bars off revolving computer controlled stock racks, and load steel pieces than are dozens of cubic feet on m/cs, that are impressive, and can do everything.
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bent wrote: | I may be mistaken about the need for for much more than on the fly | parts in | a lot of places, given the potential. $100G quickly makes sense if | only to | turn all day to a differnet Dia. from std. stock. It s the real | big dollar industry setups, where a $mil is what that job running | through there is, | where they have AGVs that retrieve anything/everything up to | including 30' | long 3' Dia. bars off revolving computer controlled stock racks, | and load | steel pieces than are dozens of cubic feet on m/cs, that are | impressive, and | can do everything.
True - and one of the interesting things that has happened is that the once prohibitively expensive motion control components have steadily decreased in price, which has made the basic technology available to a great many more people.
The little Compucarver is probably a good example. I'm inclined to believe that it should have been designed to be attached to a computer; and I think that it could have been offered with an order of magnitude higher precision - and it certainly should support g-code -- but it still boggles my mind that it's available at a local dry goods store.
Some people will buy 'em - and they'll complain that the precision sucks and that the software capabilities are inadequate for serious work (and they'll be right) - but either the Compucarve folks will get their act together or else someone else will get it right. It'll probably happen within 3-5 years; and there'll be a whole new slew of jokes about the old 'Compucarp' machines.
I'm still mulling over buying one of the little HF mini-mills and replacing the hand wheels with micro-steppers. Looks like the total parts cost (including the mill) should be under 1K. Would you have guessed - ten years ago - that you could have a new CNC mill (of any size) for under a thousand? Amazing.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
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