Crafters Needed

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Your name doesn't ring a bell, Dave, but then again I've never been that great at names. Did you work in the St. Louis, MO region?
--Kevin

wrote:
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On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 21:58:55 -0500, Kevin Sawyer, General Manager <> wrote:

Nope, I was thinking a French Canadian who I worked with in the Milwaukee area, who shares a name with you. I'm, er, glad you're not he. Him. Whichever.
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"Kevin Sawyer, General Manager" wrote:

For the last 20 years I've been selling and repairing computers as a side line.
I also have to evaluate products before offering them to my customers. I have to purchase these products I want to evaluate. I also have to maintain an inventory, pay shipping expenses and deal with the "losses" incurred with shipping damage, market fluctuations, etc. I'd love to be able to drop ship as it would put all the risk and the majority of the expenses on the suppliers.

Fortunate your original post didn't throw me off at all.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
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There are several big distributors who will drop-ship to your clients. They'll even put your logo/name on the shipping label and ticket and most of them will give you free or discounted shipping. Names that come to mind are Tech Data, Ingram Micro, Synnex, D&H Distributing...
One of my companies is a Microsoft Certified Partner, Microsoft OEM Systems Builder, and Intel Product Dealer (among other things). Like you we have to evaluate our new components and suppliers and take some losses. But, we have found that focusing on quality and value-added services puts us way ahead of just trying to keep it "cheap" for everyone. It also means that we only evaluate and use name-brand components (no Korean white-box stuff). There are little mom and pop computer shops all over the place that sell dirt cheap computer systems. We repair and replace them all the time. :) By the way, I'm Microsoft Certified (officially on 2000 and SQL) and can still be seen getting my hands dirty ripping the guts out of a system from time to time.
So what woodworking do you do most? What product would you be most likely to reproduce to sell?
--Kevin

sell
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line.
have
ship as

suppliers.
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"Kevin Sawyer, General Manager" wrote:

Ingram Micro has one of their distribution centers in Williamsville, NY, a suburb of Buffalo. Years ago I looked into using them as a supplier. At that time they wanted a guaranteed $20 K yearly order volume from anyone wishing to do business with them. I was not about to agree to $20 K not knowing how they were to do business with. Their terms seemed to me to be a one way street, but I do believe they would be willing to drop ship.

Would this be "Applied Personal Computing, Inc."? A "Google" search shows this company associated with the name Kevin Sawyer and other phrases such as "Make Money Fast" and "mail-bomb attempts".
http://www.theargon.com/articles/other%20publications/security4.txt
I see that the Doom newsgroup users also had a few comments on APCi.

I prefer to make larger items such as case work, dining and kitchen tables, etc.

To date all of my woodworking has been "one off" originals designed to meet my clients requirements. I hate production work.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
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I don't care for Ingram Micro, either. I use Tech Data most of the time...
Yes, APCi is one of my companies. I'm president/CEO there and it's where I spend the majority of my time. I'm confused about your references to "Make Money Fast" and "mail-bomb attempts." I've neither done nor offered to do either one. :-) Care to explain?
I'm sure there's all sorts of fun stuff in the old Doom newsgroups. APCi was once known for a software product that enabled PC users to dial into a BBS and hook up with other users for 4-player online Doom play. This was well before the Internet was used for multiplayer 3D first-person shooters. APCi licensed about 400 units in 26 countries. It was a ton of fun and a great experience. 10 years have gone by way too fast!
I'm not sure I'd be all that keen on production work. I love change. If things stay the same too long, I get stir crazy for sure. But, if I found something that I really enjoyed doing (and I'm lucky to have found that in a few areas of my life) then I'm generally satisfied to repeat it with perhaps some minor permutations.
--Kevin

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"Kevin Sawyer, General Manager" wrote:

If you looked at the link provided it point to a document that explains how to determine where a spam message originated. The example used is a "Make Money Fast" spam message. The author states he received over 600 messages inside of one minute. That message was designed to appear as if he sent it to himself. That message has your name in the header and shows the originating organization of APCi but the extended header show the actual sender was elsewhere.
The message I'm now replying to appears to come from Kevin Sawyer of CraftsDirect, has a message ID from APCi.net, but is posted through Giganews via usenetguide.com. I took note of the similarities is all.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
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On several occasions my return address has been forged on spamming. The most recent was actually a virus doing the spamming. If you take a look at the Acceptable Use Policies at APCiNet you'll not that we take spam and other network abuse very seriously.
--Kevin

time...
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Bruce Barnett wrote:

I haven't accused Kevin and my thoughts were actually just the opposite, originally thinking that "Kevin" may not be actually sending these messages.
1. "Kevin" is soliciting for vendor for "Crafts Direct", "America Crafts Direct" and "USA Crafts Direct" none of which appear to have a web site. I do find a "CraftsDirect" that has a web site and is located in Waite Park, MN but it does not seem to be Kevin's. I suspected this site might be hiding behind a false address.
http://www.craftsdirect.com /
Kevin operates a computer company that also provides internet service along with domain hosting.
http://www.apci.net /
I see now that MetroEast.net (indicated in Kevin's email address) most likely is a test server for APCi.net.
I'm probably overly skeptical but something seemed odd to me since APCi is a domain host but none of the "Direct Crafts" Kevin refers to have a web site.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
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You're correct, craftsdirect.com is not mine. I have USACraftsDirect.com, AmericanCraftsDirect.com, and HandCraftsDirect.com, none of which have been launched as of yet because I'm still rounding up my initial group of products and craftspeople (which is also why I haven't listed them here thus far).
I didn't feel that you were accusing me of anything but I was certain that some might jump to that conclusion so I asked for clarification. You gave it and I believe it was quite satisfactory.
MetroEast.net has been functional for a long, long time but is primarily for e-mail and some high-end wholesale Internet products (T-3s).
--Kevin

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Please forgive the mistype. The e-mail address is "Crafts Direct at Metro East dot Net" not "Quality Crafts at Metro East dot Net" as previously specified (although that address has now been created...so both are functional at this time).
We have been providing Internet services, hosting, and consulting since 1995 and presently host over 100 e-commerce sites. We are involved in several joint-ventures that help companies and individuals bring their products and services to the web. I would be happy to provide more details in a private forum.
I have a few close friends and relatives who are craftspersons and who have tried to sell their crafts on the Internet with little or no success. They can not afford to pay someone to develop a site/store nor can they afford to pay someone to promote it. After much discussion it was my idea to leverage knowledge and experience to promote and sell their crafts online in a manner that is mutually beneficial in the purest sense (all parties have natural incentives to perform as expected and no one wins unless all participate as agreed). However, I'm not interested in selling junk or trying to sell crafts of inconsistent quality. I will dedicate the resources (servers, bandwidth, programming, merchant accounts, payment processing, customer service before/after the sale, etc.) only after I have found enough craftspersons who are willing and able to perform as expected. I intend to have close relationships with each craftsperson and help them in every way possible so that they can focus on their crafts. They are welcome to set their wholesale prices after which I will determine what I feel is a fair retail markup. If we don't both make money, we'll both lose. It's that simple.
Please e-mail me directly and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have.
Thanks, and sorry again for posting an incorrect e-mail address.
Kevin Sawyer, General Manager American Crafts Direct * Handcrafts Direct * USA Crafts Direct
PS - You won't find anything in Google until we are up and running. If you'd like to know a little more about me and one of my Internet-related companies, check out http://www.apci.net .
"Kevin Sawyer, General Manager" <Crafts Direct at MetroEast dot Net> wrote in message

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comments
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Kevin:
I truly wish you the best of luck. I hope you can make your business a profitable go. Unfortunately, I have seen too many brick and mortar business with your same idea of selling good quality crafts go under. At least in the upper Mid-West, the customers are not there to support the stores.
For some reason, and believe me I wish I knew, art and crafts of high quality (high $$$) does not sell. Ask most of folks at you mid-range craft shows on why they make and offer, and I assure you it is because at craft fairs the crafters make and offer what sells. Period. (of course there are exceptions like the high end arts & craft shows you find on the East Coast. This is the 80-20 rule, 80% of the profits are made by 20% of the people.)
The tried and true market for high end craft work today, as in the past few decades, is the same: Interior Decorators. It just seems that over some undefined dollar amount, few people will invest in hand made craft (or art items) without getting confirming opinions from someone else. And if you have the money to invest in expensive $$$ craft item, paying for the advise from an interior decorator seems plausible. In any case, over this undefined dollar amount people will seek out the opinion of those whom they consider to be knowledgeable or have opinions that are trusted in Art (with a capital A.)
Now, if you had a way to focus your marketing to interior decorators or other "opinion leaders" in the purchase of art-sy craft items, then providing an expedited purchase channel would make sense. But as you will find out, EVERYBODY, wants to target market the interior decorators. You will be just another voice in the background.
Again, I truly wish you the best of luck with your venture.
GraybeardPhil
"Kevin Sawyer, General Manager" <Crafts Direct at MetroEast dot Net> wrote in message

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"phil" wrote in message ...

The road to hell may be paved with good intentions, but the road to Arkansas this past weekend was paved with failed businesses (many arts and crafts), and brand-new, permanently built fireworks "warehouses" (not "stands") in place thereof ... perfectly reflecting a dumbed down culture and the insatiable need for the important things in it: whiz, bang, and flash.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/15/04
  Click to see the full signature.
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I think it is our X-Mart society. If a genuine good craft item is selling for a fair price of $50, the big box store will have a crappy knock off for $5 made in China and people will grab it, use it for a week and toss it out.
Too many people with poor taste.
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On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 01:27:12 -0500, Kevin Sawyer, General Manager <> wrote:

Yeah, we saw your commercial several times already. Give it a rest, eh?
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"Sounds like a good proposition to me. I have been involved in a couple of these and one worked until the site went out of business (he paid up front and made some bad investments) the other I get maybe one or two orders a year from but comercial vendors do well on the site, a third started charging 300% of whole sale and went out of business. I would like more information such as fees turn around time ability to withdraw items and add new items etc.
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Wed, Jun 16, 2004, 2:46pm (EDT+4) snipped-for-privacy@peoplepc.com (SweetSawdust) says: <snip> I would like more information such as fees turn around time ability to withdraw items and add new items etc.
Likewise.
JOAT Use your brain - it's the small things that count. - Bazooka Joe
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You set your own prices (what you'll charge me). From there I mark them up as I see fit. You get your profit from your price, I get my profit from my mark-up. This governs itself quite naturally. If you charge too much and don't leave me enough room for a minimal mark-up, then the product doesn't sell and we both lose. If I charge too much then the product doesn't sell and we both lose. The market will drive our individual pricing. Either what you charge will work for me or it won't.
I would prefer that you selected just a few items and first and grew from there. If you don't want to make those items any more, you let me know that you'll no longer sell them to me and I'll take them off the site. If you have new items that you think I'd be interested in selling, then approach me. It is not your job to keep the site up to date. If someone orders something and for some reason you can't deliver, then it is my responsibility to provide the customer service and give them the bad news. Of course this could also affect our relationship in the future. So, timely and effective communication will be very important. After all, this is a relationship and either one of us can decide to get out of it at any time.
--Kevin
(Sweet Sawdust) says: <snip> I would like more information such as fees turn around time ability to withdraw items and add new items etc.
Likewise.
JOAT Use your brain - it's the small things that count. - Bazooka Joe
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Kevin;     Obviously you have ran across a group of people, some just starting like me, others with a lot more experience ,that have seen or have been burned by other inquiries that look, sound and smell like a scam. Though you may be honest in your dealings, I believe you have picked the wrong approach to promite your ideas. Remember this group of fine gentlemena and ladies love to work with their hands and minds, sometimes making true works of art. This pride and craftsmanship can not be easliy won over via a quick message on a newsgroup.          The people here, for the most part, are good and honest and work hard for what they have. You will find that if you come across in a manner that seems to smack against this lofty values, you should expect a LOT of resistance. I believe, and maybe someone needs to counter me on this, that if you took a more traditional approach to offering your services ( clubs, conventions, face to face dealings, etc.), then you will have greater success.
HTH Jerry
Kevin Sawyer, General Manager wrote:
[snip]
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I certainly appreciate your comments. As I read the posts here I am learning more and more about the community of which you spoke.
I don't expect for one moment that people will get excited and jump at the chance based on one simple posting to a newsgroup. I was hoping to start constructive discussions about my ideas and earn the trust and respect of the community with my candid responses.
I would love an opportunity to meet face-to-face. What all of you do is very personal and I know this from first-hand experience (friends, family, myself). I would never dream of selling any of your products until we've had a lot of correspondence and spoke on the phone. If feasible we would certainly meet face-to-face.
I, too, am good, honest, and work hard for what I have. I wouldn't have it any other way.
--Kevin

me, others with a lot more experience ,that

smell like a scam. Though you may be honest in

your ideas. Remember this group of fine

making true works of art. This pride and

newsgroup.
what they have. You will find that if you

should expect a LOT of resistance. I believe,

traditional approach to offering your services (

greater success.

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