Cost of Wood and Charges per Board Foot

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wrote:

Yes. Average size of post WWII house: under 1000 SF. Average size of Iraq era house, about 2800 SF. Just one thing. Of course, those Levittown houses, starting out just over 900 SF, IMS, are now larger and selling for something more like $350,000 than their original under 5K prices.
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Few years ago I was in a mall and they had a display of vintage Corvettes. One had the original price list that was about $4200. I thought to myself, "why didn't I have one back then as they were fairly cheap?" Then I did some simple math and realized back they it was about a year's wages..
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Right. They were for those with disposable income then as they are today. Many of these cars were the second car in a family. Quite common today to have at least two cars (two are practically expected!) but in '65 not so much - evidence of spare cash for those who did have the Corvettes and Jags.
Also consider how many toys and additional expenses we have today that we "just couldn't live without" compared to 40 years ago: the aforementioned 2 cars in the family; cable TV; cell phones; computers; internet access; and expensive convenience foods (above and beyond the Swanson TV dinners) just to name a few.
Take a look at our shop tools compared with what our fathers had! My dad was a chemical engineer and made a middle class living but I remember him asking for a Stanley #7 for Christmas in the very early '70s to work on the woodwork for the house he was building us. Today most of us would go out and buy our own as the need arises. He had a used 4" jointer, a used radical alarm saw, a router and a belt sander. Everything else was done by hand or he sought out a local mill to do bulk surfacing. He would be amazed at the upper-end shop tools I have out there.
In other words, yes things cost more than they did in the good old days but perhaps it's in part an indicator of how much extra cash (whether in-hand or available through borrowing) is floating around - i.e. charge what the market will bear. This is especially evident with the housing "bubble".
--
Owen Lowe
The Fly-by-Night Copper Company
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Yep, when it was one talk per copper pair there was more demand than supply. Economics 101.
How do they work the taxes? US folks have taxes to provide "essential service" to the poor, excise, connection taxes and 9-1-1 assessments. Do these internet-based outfits charge them, or do they fall under the "can't tax the internet" legislation?
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George wrote:

I think I may not have been clear--this is regular landline from the local telco, not VOIP.
Chris
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wrote

Mine, too. Verizon is the local long distance carrier. Supposedly working on DSL. When we returned some 18 months ago, they told my wife it would be six months. Now, they don't respond that clearly.
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wrote

Ah, "bundle" of wireline services with DSL rather than using the bandwidth on the DSL.
Lots of folks here have gone away from landline altogether. Cellular or internet calling through cable is cheaper.
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On 11/30/2005 6:25 PM Greg G. mumbled something about the following:

Greg, What area of Atlanta? I'm about 40 mile ENE towards Athens and I haven't seen those prices anywhere near here.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???
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Odinn said:

I'm on the west side, 12 miles out from Buckhead. Know of a good place?
Greg G.
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On 12/1/2005 12:48 AM Greg G. mumbled something about the following:

Georgia Hardwoods in Buford Atlanta Wood Products - South Cobb Dr and River Rd Peachstate Lumber in Kennesaw Suwanee Lumber Co. in Suwanee
You might want to check out http://www.woodworkersguildofga.com and look at the forum. Occassionally someone is selling lumber.
If you don't mind air dried rough lumber, check out http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-bobtailcritter He's located north of Buford.
--
Odinn
RCOS #7 SENS BS ???
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NOBODY clear-cuts a hardwood forest with the expectation that it will be one in the future. Clear-cutting is for softwood. where it makes sense because the seedlings don't tolerate shading well.
I really doubt that it's much different down there either from a sivaculture or tax standpoint
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George said:

No one ever claimed they wanted it to grow back. They strip it for the hardwoods, and either leave it fallow, or build McMansions on it. When they build here now, EVERY tree is removed. After all, don't want those pesky song birds waking you up in the morning. And those evil trees take up space that could be used for pavement or another stinking, worthless house.
Like this:
http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/AerialAtlanta-2.jpg
The areas left with trees are where the locals wouldn't sell - yet.
http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/AerialAtlanta-5.jpg
There are over 20 houses in this one picture alone. This mess is tucked in a slim alley between two older neighborhoods - that's why there are still trees visible.
When developers originally moved into Atlanta, they built nice homes, left the majority of the trees, and the houses actually had yards for the kids.
But Ryland Homes and other such maggot's interpretation of homebuilding is to strip everything - and I mean EVERYTHING. The top soil, the trees, the rocks. All that is left is red clay. Everything else is trucked off and sold.
When you buy a bag of potting soil at Home Depot, you don't get a well mixed formula of perlite, vermiculite, peat moss and composted soil. You get a bag of Georgia Forest Topsoil - even says so on the back of the bags in very small print. It doesn't even matter what brand you buy: Miracle Grow (crap), private brands (crap), Jungle (better), Bayer (same crap) or Schultz (used to be a good mix, but now it's produced locally and is crap as well.)
http://www.thevideodoc.com/Images/AerialAtlanta-7.jpg
They just got started on this one...
They attempt to alter the rolling terrain to fit their crappy slab homes, and then everyone surrounding this mess is left to deal with the rainwater erosion problems they have created. It's horrible... And these damned northern industrial city transplants just eat up...
They have turned a forested jewel into a cesspool of foul pollution. Unmanaged growth and development, crooked local government officials hungry for money and kickbacks, and locals who sell-off to get the hell away from what this is turning into. It's not a pretty site... Even been to Compton, CA? Welcome home!
Sorry about the rant, but I have to live here... It's like someone raping your child - over and over - and you're powerless to stop them.
FWIW,
Greg G.
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welcome to southern kalifornia. that's what it looks like, la to san diego, wall to wall.

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Charles Spitzer said:

I know - don't remind me. <g> We fly out there several times a year. Little did I realize the first time I went to LA, back in the early eighties, that it would follow me home just a few years later...
The in-laws live in Santa Barbara and sisters live in LA and in the Sierras, NE of San Francisco. One writes hiking books about the waterfalls and trails of California. One raises hybrid Orchids. One raises kids. I've been up and down the entire state - albeit mostly along the coast. Nice weather, but way too many people in an artificially sustained environment. To many scam artists and price fixing monopolies as well. Looked at your water or power bill lately? <g> Rolling blackouts, my ass - more like engineered scare tacticsvying for price increases. I'm just fearful that we're heading in the same direction...
JMHO,
Greg G.

Greg G.
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On 12/1/2005 3:55 PM Greg G. mumbled something about the following:

Greg, You need to move out of metro. I live 40 miles from 285, my closest neighbor is 150 ft away through the woods and I can't see his house, and if I was to drive to his house, it's damn near a 1/4 mile drive (the neighbor on the other side would be almost a mile drive door to door).
--
Odinn - thinking it's almost time to move to the country.

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Odinn said:

What town are you nearest to?
I don't disagree - but I also need to have to have certain vital services - like High Speed Internet - for income. We do programming and system support work from home. I doubt I'll be making enough at woodworking to cover our expenses. <g>
I actually drove to Cartersville for 2 years, subcontracting a job there, 50 miles out of Atlanta, and no sooner than I got there, the developers began clearing out the farmlands...
Of course, the proximity of the Interstate doesn't help in that regard... We even looked around northern Alabama, outside of Huntsville as a possible solution.
Same with Florida. Moved there in '90, and moved to 4 different cities before I gave up and moved back here.
It like a plague, and I'm the carrier. :-\ I'm getting to the point that when I see Caterpillar yellow, I drop into a pseudo-epileptic fit. I've lived in cities, and don't like it.
No single species should have such exclusive and overwhelming dominance over any area. It just ain't healthy, I tell ya...
And before I forget, thanks for the link to the Bobtail Critter Sawmill. This is about what I'm looking for...
Greg G.
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On 12/2/2005 12:49 AM Greg G. mumbled something about the following:

3.5 miles from a little town called Bethlehem (pop 320).

I have high speed internet via cable. I'm in the computer industry as well (Sr. Unix Architect used to be a Software Engineer - don't you just love the names they use to glorify programmer and sysadmin positions) and require it (I had satellite for a while, which barely managed).

Okay, don't move out here, it's already getting too crowded. We had a traffic jam on my road yesterday (I was behind 2 cars doing 43 in a 45 mph zone) and I don't need it worse.
--
Odinn - seriously thinking of moving to the country before it gets too
crowded.
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Actually I'm in western PA where I recently found a rather small father/son run sawmill, just north of Pittsburgh.
On my last trip up I picked up about 35-40 bf for about $80. It was a mixed lot of 4/4 & 7/4 cherry, 4/4 WOak, 4/4 sycamore and a 3x3x72 piece of soft maple
All rough
Add $10 for gas and still less than $3/ bf
FWIW, even the local Rocklers' sells S3S ROak for $3.50 - $4.00
Ron
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tyvek said:

Kinfolks is acceptable... for a colloquialism. But never was a Burt fan, thanks.

I really wouldn't know. I prefer more seasoned women. Besides, they put old guys like me in jail for hanging around the schoolyard.

I hear ya. I was in the same situation until I shot some video of a prominent Texas politician in a .. um.. compromising position at a park near the Corpus Christy Navel Air Station.
Now it's Iranian Beluga Caviar and Dom - all the way.

You spend WAY too much time swapping configuration properties in Agent. But what I'd really like to know is which one of you smart-ass wreckers this _really_ is... Tyvek the Conqueror has never made a post to Usenet before yesterday, and I have a sneaking suspicion that you are actually... hmm... 220grit. :-p
Greg G.
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Here in central NC, I'm usually able to pick up walnut 4/4 S2S for about $5 per BF and soft maple for $4.
-G
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