Cost of Heating oil; Cost of lumber?

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Morris Dovey wrote:

I dunno. When gas hit $1.00 a gallon and stayed there, I got rid of my 15 MPG pick up and bought a Geo. Actually, I bought the Geo earlier, and let the PU sit unless I was picking something up. Add that to a Stratus (POS, should anyone ask [whole model line, AFAICT], but it's paid for and low miles). I now have an S10 pick up. Not big enough, but close (Dakota would be just right). So I've made the adjustment to a car that pulls about 30-32 MPG on a trip, and a PU that gets 27 MPG. The Geo? It wore out. Not great cars, but they were also cheap. IIRC, a new one was about $8500. I paid about half that for mine, used.
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wrote:

You are making solar furnaces, right? The problem I've seen with them, thus far, is that the payback period is so long as to make the fact that the fuel is free somewhat irrelevant. Maybe your's are different, if so, I'd be open to more information (although, in southern AZ, solar air conditioning would be much more cost-effective).
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Mark & Juanita (in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com) said:
| On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 18:24:03 -0500, "Morris Dovey"
| || Charlie Self (in || snipped-for-privacy@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com) said: || ||| Mark & Juanita wrote: |||| Frankly, if we are tired of being held hostage to unstable gas |||| prices, we (the people, not the government) need to be looking at |||| alternatives. Increased domestic exploration, identification of |||| alternate fuel sources, etc. The oil industry has been so |||| consolidated for numerous reasons, some due to greed on the part |||| of business, some due to power-lust on the part of governments, |||| some even due to unintended consequences on the part of |||| tree-huggers that competition, for the most part does not exist. |||| What is needed is competition at a higher level. ||| ||| And just as frankly, a solid amount of conservation on the part of ||| the consumer would help a lot. Refusal to buy barge sized vehicles ||| for single person use, better planning of trips and similar ||| tactics would have the oil companies paying attention to their ||| market again, though given the proliferation of 11-12 MPG ||| vehicles over the past decade or so, it might well take many ||| years. || || <s> || || Everyone wants someone /else/ to solve the problem. Preferably at || no cost. || || The "no cost" part is more important than you might guess. In my || day job I sell furnaces that come with a lifetime supply of free || fuel. You'd think they'd sell like hotcakes. || || Think again. | | You are making solar furnaces, right? The problem I've seen with | them, thus far, is that the payback period is so long as to make | the fact that the fuel is free somewhat irrelevant. Maybe your's | are different, if so, I'd be open to more information (although, in | southern AZ, solar air conditioning would be much more | cost-effective).
The energy available for capture by a solar heating panel is determined by the area of the panel - for all panels. Panel efficiency is the percentage of the available energy that is actually delivered. Most of the panels on the market have pretty decent efficiencies - the largest significant difference to the consumer is price (which can vary hugely and seems to be largely unrelated to efficiency.)
The payback period depends on the costs associated with that portion of the heating done by a conventional system replaced by solar. The payback period in southern Arizona will probably be longer than that for northern Minnesota, but how much longer I don't really know...
The first collectors that I built for myself in southern Minnesota way more than paid for themselves in their _first_ heating season. I'll stick my neck out to estimate that my current generation of collectors will pay for themselves here /before/ their second heating season is over.
I wish I could offer you a solution to the AC problem. It's doable - just picture the flame-powered refrigerator used in some campers with the flame replaced with heat captured from a parabolic concentrator. 'Tisn't simple; but neither is it rocket surgery. [Remember when I was asking about calculating the length of a parabola? I was working on the refrigeration problem.]
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 20:31:13 -0700, Mark & Juanita wrote:

I don't know what they're called, but: run a gazillion feet of tubing underground, pump water through it and have a heat exchanger where the furnace used to be. In the Great White North the tubing is installed in a deep vertical hole. In southern AZ they put it in a less-deep trench. DAGS; you'll be glad you did.
--
"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad scientist com
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geothermal heat pump?
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I can't figure that one out. Back in the late 70's solar was getting some government money and the industry was starting to move. Then the funds dried up and people just did not want to invest or pay the initial cost. I would have though the past 12 to 15 months you'd have people lined up at the door waiting to buy.
I would have thought that most any new house built today would have a least a partial solar heat supplemented by other fuel.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/



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Edwin Pawlowski (in EMbOe.526$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com) said:
|| || The "no cost" part is more important than you might guess. In my || day job I sell furnaces that come with a lifetime supply of free || fuel. You'd think they'd sell like hotcakes. | | I can't figure that one out. Back in the late 70's solar was | getting some government money and the industry was starting to | move. Then the funds dried up and people just did not want to | invest or pay the initial cost. I would have though the past 12 to | 15 months you'd have people lined up at the door waiting to buy.
That government money was made available as grants to produce buildings for the "Solar Demonstration Project" but the project requirements made the involvement not worthwhile for anyone other than ivory tower types and professional grantsters. The money was, I think, all spent; but the results weren't terribly useful in the real world. I investigated applying for one of the grants, but decided against. It wasn't until ten years later that I could afford (barely) to go ahead and build my design.
| I would have thought that most any new house built today would have | a least a partial solar heat supplemented by other fuel.
You'd think so wouldn't you? Somehow the architectural design profs never caught on. I guess there wasn't much motivation to learn and teach about alternative energy technologies of any kind if one had tenure. Without architects on board, it isn't happening. Consider it another failure of our education system to respond to a changing world.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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wrote:

having a federal government bought and owned by oil companies couldn't possibly have anything to do with that, I'm sure....
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Percentages can be mis-leading also. If Mobil had sales last year of $1 billion and made $1 profit and this year they sold $2 billion but the profit was $1.60, you could report a 60% increase in earnings.

The dealers are told (not requsted) by the distributor to change prices. I know of an instance last year by a local dealer that did not want to increase for the second time the same day. He was politely told he may not get any more deliveries if he did not raise them.
I got lucky last week. Prices went up 9 and they were getting a delivery and changing the signs while I was pumping. Five minutes later . . . .

I'd like to know who is making the money. Dealer? Distributor? Refiner? Arabs? All of the above?

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wrote in message

Well, if you were invested in Shell Oil, you would have made 30% over the past year. Obviously, the crude oil producers make out like bandits. I'm pretty sure nobody in the supply chain is going broke.
I'm actually surprised that gas prices have been as low historically as they have been. I'm not an economist, but I bet the demand curve for gasoline is highly inelastic (I think I'm using the correct term here...it's been a while since Econ 101). What I hope that means is that the demand for gasoline is not affected greatly by the price. But, as happened in the 70s, I think the gas prices are starting to get people's attention. Demand for hybrid vehicles is very strong and I would hope that fuel efficiency is very high on people's concerns when purchasing a car. I'm sensitive to this as I currently have to drive 60 miles per day to get to work. The change I've made is that I've started taking the train most of the time. It's somewhat inconvenient as I have to take the train downtown and then catch another going out to the suburb I work in, but I don't have to sit in traffic and can do my technical reading on the ride. At least I can when some crackhead isn't sitting next to me singing for 30 minutes straight.
todd
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Even at today's prices, the average state/federal bite of $0.38 per gallon makes government the big winner when you fill up.
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Just a thought, and probably one they closed the loophole on some time ago, but is it possible to write off the price of gas paid for daily commutes on your year-end taxes? I know that if I buy a tool or tools that I must have to perform my job, I can write that off, as well as depreciation on that tool- if it's worth enough to bother calculating it. Most people don't bother, because it's nothing but nickel and dime stuff, but gasoline adds up awfully quick at these prices. You'd need to keep a milage log and gas receipts for the year, but I can't see why a vehicle that you must have to get to and from work isn't a business expense... I'd be willing to bet that just about every corporate entity does this for their fleet, why not a private citizen?
Like I said, it's probably a loophole shut tight and locked up long ago, but a guy has to wonder.
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Prometheus wrote:

This is neither tax nor legal advice but the short answer is, I think, it depends. FWIW, I don't believe that commuting expenses for any worker were EVER deductible. Commuting for charitable purposes (volunteer work)are deductible.
If you commute from home to a fixed place of employment each day (i.e. bank, office, factory, store) your commute is treated as personal use of the vehicle is is not deductible.
OTOH, if you have a fixed place of business, as above, but your work often takes you, by car, to other locations, I believe that on those days that you just do business away from the office or begin your day in that fashion and eventually wind up at the office to, say, drop off goods picked up, replenish stock of sales samples, etc, then all the vehicle usage is deductible as business mileage.
If you work out of the house and all your business driving is to client's/customer locations, then it is my understanding the entire mileage for the day is business mileage and deductible.
Self-employed, I fall into the middle category and most of my mileage throughout the year is business related but being 5+ miles from my office I still wind up with a fair amount of commuting mileage incurred by going directly to the office most mornings and not leaving until mid-day, if then. Still, every little bit helps.
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Refiner?
gallon
IRS Code Sec. 162, pp. 2380 "Commuting expenses between a person's residence and business location within the area of the person's tax home are not deductible even if work is done during the commute".
todd
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It has been a while since I had a company car but short answer, NO.
I had to declare the mileage from my home to the office or to my first stop as personal communing miles, then the rest of the time it was counted as business miles. The commuting miles actually counted as income if it was a company supplied vehicle.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Yeah. I found this out years ago. My SIL gets a vehicle for personal use, with the proviso that it can be used to pick up company visitors at the airport and similar chores (happened about twice in a decade). He pays taxes on almost the entire value of the vehicle. Ouch.
Fortunately, I don't have to worry about commute miles on my old and small pick-up. My commute takes about 15 seconds, to the in-house office, or to the shop. Actulaly, more like 30 seconds to the shop, as it's further away.
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The supply/demand curve for gasoline is different that most of the other products that we purchase.

Welcome to commodity economics.

I don't know where competitive pricing stops and price gouging starts. Unfortunately, based on our purchasing habits, we don't give the oil companies much incentive to lower prices.
As an aside, here's something interesting I found. On an inflation-adjusted basis (2005 dollars), the price of crude oil peaked in the early 80s at $84.29/bbl. In fact, from the late 70s through the early 80's, crude oil cost more than it does now. Of course, you'll never hear that in a newscast, because it suits their purpose to report "record oil prices". Here's another one...in the early 70's, crude oil traded at (again in 2005 dollars) $9.03/bbl.
todd
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Todd Fatheree wrote:

Maybe where you live, but in the SE U.S., we got that news last week, the week before and the week before that. Regional TV newscast and the local "liberal" paper both covered it.
No big deal. I still don't like paying closer to three bucks a gallon than is comfortable.
One pundit, as noted earlier, has stated that it's likely gasoline will hit $4.67 a gallon by years' end. I was predicting three buck gas months ago, around here (and this is one of the lowest priced areas in the U.S.).
The rationales are almost excessively simple. In Europe, it's political greed (taxes) added to high oil prices; here, it's greed, period, not tied to any particular political party.
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Charlie Self wrote: ...

Actually, for the most part it's more into they're getting into serious social engineering much earlier than we...
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Lies, damned lies, and statistics again.
Profit margins?
Low-cost Chinese goods distort the CPI, then you go ahead and do it again.
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