Cope or Not Cope Crown Molding

[evodawg]

I do crown molding for a living and today I went to the Woodworkers Show in Ontario California. There's a device this guy is selling called "Cut and Crown" and it looked interesting. 3 molded plastic jigs to hold your 3 different types of Crown making it easier and not having to move your saw blade. It looked good but he was just cutting the angles. No wall as a prop. These were basically inside 45's and he just glued them together, looked pretty tight. I asked him about coping and he got pissed off like I was raining on his parade and then ignored me. I told him I prefer to cope cause I like the tight fit on irregular wall surfaces specially on wide crown. I asked him how he cuts 8"crown he told me he likes using 2

4"crowns. Anyway anyone tried this system and when you install crown do you cope or use the cut codes in any good trim book to make your compound angles?

[Mike O.]

We cut most crown upside down on some size of miter saw depending on the size of the crown. When running crowns on ceilings we'll always cope. On cabinet tops we sometimes use miters since they can often be nailed though the joint from the back side. Also there are some installations where we might have lighting that will be installed behind the crown. In those cases we usually have to use miters since we can't have one piece run past the other either for space requirements or shadows.

Mike O.

[nailshooter41]

In perfect world with perfect trim that goes into perfectly square rooms that have perfectly square corners, you don't need to cope.

Or if you are like many that I know, 1/2" caulk relieves you of the responsibility of making a good joint.

I always cope. Every single time.

Robert

[evodawg]

Yep and that's what Ive always done toooo. This guy selling this thing looked at me like I was the enemy. Guess I was stepping on his sales, but he sure had a group of sheep following his every move.

[Jim Hall]

"I asked him about coping and he got pissed..." funny! LOL..

[Ed Pawlowski]

I'm sure you've noticed that style over substance is what counts. It is more important to have crown molding than to have a proper installation. Granite countertops will sell a house faster than better framing that is hidden by sheetrock. Why make things straight when they have such good caulk on the market.

[John Grossbohlin]

Guess he couldn't cope with the question...

[Leon]

But you have years of experience that help you cope with hard installations Robert!

[Leon]

you watch the video it is apparent that odd angles are not a problem as long as you measure the angle with the supplied angle finder and set the saw to that angle, what ever that angle is.

[John Grossbohlin]

The thing that would concern me is what happens when you nail it up... All this "scientific" methodology assumes that the corner and walls stay the same throughout the installation process. That isn't always the case as drywall isn't always screwed tightly to the framing and ceiling joists and the drywall tape may not lay tight in the corner and give. Insulation and vapor barriers often result in some drywall give in exterior wall and ceiling situations. With the cope joint if the "wall" moves the joint doesn't open up during nailing. Will an end grain glue joint put up with that, or do you end up with a chalk job?

Thoughts for discussion...

John

[evodawg]

That was my concern to. He used a Super Glue and a accelerator spray. He really didn't address the wall not being straight, drywall tape, joint compound and etc.

[evodawg]

Yes this was the same guy to. He does have an interesting product.

[Upscale]

Perhaps it was something along the lines of these?

$40 is pretty expensive for what essentially amounts to 10 cents worth of moulded plastic. I guess if someone's crown moulding skills are challenged enough, they might spend the money, but damned if I would.

[Lowell Holmes]

About 30 years ago, I wasted $40 worth of crown moulding learning how to cut a coped joint. Since that time, it's been no problem. FWIW, I still have the Rockwell Power Miterbox I learned on. My compound miter saw was a radial arm saw. I still have it too. I seldom use either.

If I was contracting, I would have the CMS, but I don't have a use for one.

[Leon]

thrown off for ceiling crown moldings but this jig may really be a plus for getting fancy and adding moldings to furniture.

[Leon]

Expensive yes but not prohibitively so. I think the $40 would be recouped quickly in time savings.

[RicodJour]

This is what a number of contractors I know use. Good, clear write up.

[nailshooter41]

I agree. I think it would be pretty spiffy for that.

But the downside for them is how many would they sell if it were marketed just to cabinet guys that made compound angle corners? Not many I would think. Cabinet angles are usually a walk in the park since the molding is small enough to nest in a small miter saw bed.

The other comment you made that I wholeheartedly agree with is how much time those things could save you. If you don't install a lot of crown, it is easy to get goofed up on your angles and positioning. I think if you were doing a few rooms in your house and that was all you really wanted to do, those things could really pay for themselves if you didn't understand the "flip it upside down and backwards then reverse the cut for the other side" explanation.

I have seen PILES of wasted trim with all manner of cuts on them while some poor fellow is trying to figure out how to cut the complimentary angle to the one he got right.

Robert

[RicodJour]

I usually solve that problem by cutting the second one first. ;)

R

[Upscale]

Possibly, but who would buy one except a homeowner? And then, time isn't as important a factor. The contractors I know would die from embarrassment if they were caught with one, at least they'd never admit using one.

I guess if you're spatially challenged with crown moulding, then it would save money compared to what might be lost in wasted wood, but fortunately, that's not a problem I've ever had. There's no way in hell I'd ever be installing crown moulding anyway, so I guess it doesn't matter.