-MIKE- wrote in news:mqdkam$s77$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:
You'd think that, except in very tiny sizes, they'd do as well as Torx. There is a 12-pointed variety, called a spline-drive, that's been around for a long time (started as an alternative to allen socket, I think), and those don't seem to have problems.
Incidently, there's also a double-Torx, from what I've been told, which, of course, is not compatible with spline-drive, even tho they both have 12 points.
(there's also a 5-point Torx, for use on fire hydrants...)
I think it is probably 10 of thousands of screws. I can easily drive hundreds and I am not any thing near a production environment.
FWIW Ford wanted a better screw for production, vs. the slot head screw. Robertson would have been adopted had Robertson agreed to Fords terms about patent and or use rights of the screw. As a result the Philips head was eventually developed/adopted. And FWIW I do see more Torx, I saw its introduction to GM in 1975 but by far I still see the Philips and square drive as the dominant variety.
Keep in mind some Torx screws are "security Torx. They have a small round pin in the middle of the star in the screw head. Those require a torx driver with a hole in the center of the end of the bit.
The disadvantage of Torx is that not everyone has a Torx bit.
I do a lot of volunteer stuff that often involves construction. For example , setting up tracks for Soap Box Derby races. We have to construct starting ramps and safety rails. We have to secure 10 x 20 canopies to the blacktop , etc. For years I have wanted to switch to Torx or Star or Robertson, anyt hing but Phillips. Unfortunately, I can't do that.
Every racing family has a screw gun and Phillips head bits because that is what is used for the Derby car shells. However, not many of them have Torx or Star or Robertson bits, so we are basically forced to use Phillips heads for everything if we want everyone to help with the set-up and tear-down.
I can't tell you how many times I've had to get out the vice grips to remov e a stripped Phillips screw from something because some rookie chunk-chunk- chunked it in with a bit-up Phillips bit. Gawd, how I hate that sound.
Maybe I should pledge $14 for a Knife Edge bit and then submit an expense r eport to the Derby.
Some times the use of an impact drive can successfully and easily remove a damaged Philips screw. I recall remodeling a neighbors kitchen. The previous owner used some kind of putty to fill the screw heads, I have no idea what he was thinking.
Using my drill and Phillips bit I was getting absolutely know where on removing the 12+ exposed bottom attachment screws on the upper cabinets.
Using the same bit but changing to my impact driver instantly solved the problem. What little grip the bit made with the filled Phillips heads was suddenly enough.
Leon wrote in news:0s6dnb48v4f- snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
I've seen about a dozen variations on the "history of the phillips screw", but what I beleive to be the true one is that Phillips invented it for assembling aluminum aircraft hulls, because it was too easy to strip out the hole in the soft aluminum sheets. By the time he'd figured out the design and manufacturing, aircraft were switching to rivitted assembly, but someone at GM saw the screw and thought it would work well in auto assembly, since the same problem of stripped screwholes existed with sheet steel auto bodies.
To a degree that's intentional. At my prior employer, we used phillips for screws the customer was expected to want to undo, and Torx for ones internally he wasn't susposed to mess with. So we'd have 4 or 8 externally visible phillips heads, and a couple of dozen Torx inside.
Don't know if I buy that. The Robertson screw was patented in 1911 and the Phillips in 1936. The Robertson patents would have expired in '29.
I think Ford uses more Torx than Phillips (particularly any larger bolts because Phillips' intentional cam-out is a problem) and I don't remember ever seeing a square-recessed head on any of my cars.
Saw it on the History channel, documentary on either Ford or the Robertson screw. Probably the later. That was Henry Ford that wanted the rights for the screw in the very early years.
There is more than cars being assembled. But mostly what I was referring to was the availability to the consumer. For most other household products a Phillips screw is the norm.
Because 90% of people that buy a screw driver only buy a straight or Phillips. Only now are some of them familiar with square drive let alone torx. And 99% still get by with simply a straight or Phillips screw driver.
It has nothing to do with expense. It has to do with what they know and wha t they deal with. The vast majority of the families involved in the Derby a ren't involved in the types of activities where Torx vs. Robertson vs. Phil lips becomes a issue of which type of screws to use. By rule, they must use the supplied Phillips head screws in the construction of the Derby cars. W hile some of us are also serious DIYers (building our own decks, etc.) and/ or contractors, where the choice of screw matters, most families still live in the Phillips head world. When we say "Hey, Bob! Can you grab you screw gun and take that starting ramp apart?" it had better be put together with Phillips head or odds are Bob isn't going to be able to help.
ple, setting up tracks for Soap Box Derby races. We have to construct start ing ramps and safety rails. We have to secure 10 x 20 canopies to the black top, etc. For years I have wanted to switch to Torx or Star or Robertson, a nything but Phillips. Unfortunately, I can't do that.
is what is used for the Derby car shells. However, not many of them have To rx or Star or Robertson bits, so we are basically forced to use Phillips he ads for everything if we want everyone to help with the set-up and tear-dow n.
move a stripped Phillips screw from something because some rookie chunk-chu nk-chunked it in with a bit-up Phillips bit. Gawd, how I hate that sound.
e report to the Derby.
Too much variability in participants. Also, not my job. ;-)
Geez, Home Depot, Harbor Freight, and everybody else sell the same 10 buck box of bits that fit just about everything. I'm sorry, but "don't have bits" is a crock. The only reason they have Phillips bit is that they bought them in a store.
My Corvette had four very visible Torx screws that were specifically intended to be "messed with" by the owner--there was even a wrench provided. They were the ones that held the removable roof panel.
"J. Clarke" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:
That was my thought too. Not so long ago, it took work to find a Torx or Robertson bit. Now, tho, the stores are full of bit assortments that include straight, phillips, 3 or 4 sizes of Torx, a couple of Robertons and half a dozen small hex sockets.
If you want to mess someone up now, you have to find screws with Bristol splines or 12-point splines. Or maybe the old "clutch-head" screws with the hour-glass shaped recess.
The silver retainer around the sealed beams/headlights, part of the headlight capsule, used Torx starting in 1975 with GM. It was a welcome change as the Phillips head screws were often rusted and did not want to come out.
Where were you looking? Now I will admit that I have a pretty long automotive back ground but I bought my first Torx screw driver in 1975. They were pretty plentiful at all the auto supply stores. I sis not look at Craftsman but that probably would have been my seconds guess back then.
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