Conv to 220?

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2. You will definitely notice the difference. My 746 struggled to cut 6/4 hardwood on 110V and would occasionally pop a breaker. On 220, with the same blade, it is like a different saw. Faster start-up, and no sign of bog unless I feed too fast.
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On 24 May 2005 09:49:35 -0700, very_dirty snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Whatever you do, if toller posts any sort of recommendation, run, don't walk away from it.
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LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
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Listen to LRod; he knows everything.
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wrote:

You're being too hard on him, LRod. He's actually answered a couple of electrical questions correctly in a.h.r. the last few days... by waiting to see what I, or Tom Horne, or a few others, respond, and then posting a "me too".
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 00:17:06 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

See below. We may have to add a name to the list.
--
LRod

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I assume this is from Doug, the alpha jerk...
I can't see what you say because I block your posts. And if I happened to agree with anything you said, there would be no reason to post anything at all.
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Toller, I *know* that's not true. It's obvious you have been reading at least some of my posts, because (a) you've been parroting my electrical advice in a.h.r. and (b) you replied to one of them a few days ago.

I get worried when you agree with anything I say - I immediately check to see if I made a mistake.
I certainly agree that when it comes to electrical issues, there is no reason for you to post anything at all. You don't know what you're talking about; the only way you *ever* give correct electrical advice is when you're repeating what someone else has said. When you strike out on your own, you're dangerous.

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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Liar.
Tell you what, Toller: you stop posting stupid, incorrect, dangerous answers to electrical questions... and I'll stop calling your answers stupid, incorrect, and dangerous.
Deal?
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On 24 May 2005 09:49:35 -0700, very_dirty snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Yes, but. I would put in a more appropriately sized breaker and the appropriate connector. And remember, that third wire *is not* an equipment ground, but the neutral.

Probably.
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wrote:

Uh, how do you figure that? While the stove *may* have used the third wire as a neutral (under an NEC exception for many years), the circuit and outlet have no way of knowing what's plugged into it, and the third wire is connected to the ground bus back at the panel. Even if it's tied to the "neutral" bus, unless the panel is a sub-panel, the neutral and ground busses are tied together anyway.
No, with no stove (or dryer) connected, that third wire is definitely an equipment ground.
Or were you just funnin' us?

Yeah, especially if the 120V line he's plugged into is the least bit wimpy.
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I know that the neutral and grounding conductor are tied together at the service entrance. That *does not* mean that a grounding conductor and neutral are at the same potential anywhere else.
This was true even in a clothes dryer or electric range, where lights, motors, timers, etc ran from one phase to neutral. Admittedly these load currents are small, however, in the strictest sense, there is a voltage drop in the neutral between the load and the service panel. Therefore, a non-current carrying grounding conductor and the neutral have different potentials at the load end.

Unless there is some other load on the same circuit, something that you do not know.
By your reasoning, we can just eliminate grounding conductors; after all, the neutral is grounded at the service entrance. Tie it to the frame of your table saw and sit back and hope that nothing goes wrong.
If the National Fire Protection Association thought that what you say is true, I doubt that they would have made the NEC change that now requires four wires, two phases, neutral and grounding conductor.

Not at all.

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wrote:

Perhaps I could have been clearer. Once the stove/dryer is disconnected none of what you say applies. Moreover, the OP said the stove in use was gas, therefore there was nothing connected. Consequently there are no 120V load currents in that line. Until there is a load on that circuit that uses the third wire as a neutral it is as proper an equipment ground as you could wish.
Unless the panel is a subpanel. Then you need to make sure the ground wire is attached to the ground bus. You are aware that some jurisdictions have the main breaker at the meter and that what most of us would consider the main load center (breaker panel) in the basement/utility closet is actually a subpanel.

Since a stove or dryer is on its own breaker, and since in this case the stove is not connected, we DO know there is no other load on the circuit.

That's not at all what I was saying or even implying. There was no stove connected. Therefore, there is no current flowing in the grounding wire (it is NOT a neutral).

If you want to read that into my post, enjoy yourself.
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However, it *does* mean that the conductor that had previously been used as the neutral for the electric stove *can* be used as the equipment ground for the table saw.

That's true - but none of it matters anymore after that dual 120/240V load (the stove) had been disconnected. He's talking about connecting a pure 240V load to it. He needs only three conductors for that load, not four, and he has all three available. What's the problem?

Sorry, Wes, your reality check just bounced. That's a complete non-sequitur. As I said above, he needs three wires, he has three wires, no problem.

For devices that use both 120V and 240V, yes. For devices that use *only* 240V (and a table saw falls into this category) and thus do not need a neutral, no, the NEC does *not* require four wires.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) writes:
[...]

Does the coil of the switch on the saw operate between the two phase leads or between ground and one of the phases? (I assume a saw will have a magnetic starter...)
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Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto: snipped-for-privacy@physik.uni-bonn.de Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
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What difference does it make? The saw's power cord has only three wires: two hots, and equipment ground.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 13:05:07 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

My code book is kind of old; however, it states:
"NEC Article 210-10: Ungrounded Conductors Tapped from Grounded Systems.
Two-wire dc and ac circuits of two or more ungrounded conductors shall be permitted to be tapped from the ungrounded conductors of circuits having a grounded neutral conductor. Switching devices in each tapped circuit shall have a pole in *each* (emphasis added) ungrounded conductor."
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The switch in the table saw, being cord-and-plug-connected, is not part of the circuit, and this article therefore does not apply.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Juergen Hannappel wrote:

...
Probably not in this case...the particular saw in question is a convertible 110/220V model, not a stationary. It <probably> has double-pole mechanical switch.
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It already *has* an "appropriately sized breaker" (presuming the stove installation was Code-compliant). The breaker is there to protect the wiring and the receptacle, not the device that's plugged in.
It may not be possible to install "the appropriate connector", as the wiring for a Code-compliant 40A circuit is certainly at least #8, possibly as large as #6 - and the "appropriate" 20- or 30-amp receptacle is unlikely to be rated for use with wires that large.

It's a neutral in a 240V electric range circuit only because electric ranges contain both 120V and 240V equipment, and the 120V control circuits need the neutral. If you connect a pure 240V load such as a 240V motor to this circuit, there is no neutral, and the third wire is the equipment ground.
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Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

...
That's why I suggested the pigtail solution --
If it were actually my shop, I'd probably have already run dedicated circuits for the stationary tools rather than trying to use this one, but OP's situation may not be convenient.
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