Consumer Product Safety Comm. to discuss proposed SawStop technology safety rule

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I can't say I know everyone where I work, but I know 5 people have one, counting me. And then there's relatives that own one, so yeah, there's probably a lot of table saws out there.
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Sounds low. When I had my accident in 1989 the OR nurse said that TS accidents show up 3 to 4 times a week.
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I wonder how many of those visiting the ER are repeat customers?
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I never wondered that. Usually a trip to the ER leaves a lasting impression that discourages a repeat of the same accident that got them in the first place. In my case however I almost had the same accident again 1 year later as I never did realize how I was hurt until I almost repeated the accident. The saw was turned off and there was no wood on the table. That pretty much rules out improper procedure for 99.99% of preventable measures.
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I would think that the 55,000 TS injuries a year might be a little low. This week I have had 3 injuries from my table saw, bumped into it once and hurt my leg, laid down a stack of boards and mashed my finger, had a piece of wood (large) fall from the table and hit my foot. None of these injuries occurred when the saw was running, Total loss of time 5 min at most while I was cussing my own stupidity, cost to business $0. Will the saw stop help with any of those? they seem to be the most common type around my shop.
, for SawStop

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Well, if the cost of the Sawstop prevented you from buying one, you'd have been prevented from experiencing all of those klutz injuries and saved that 5 minutes. Think of it. 52 weeks x 5 minutes = over 4 hours. Think of the money you could save then? :)
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On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 23:43:13 -0500, "sweetsawdust"

What you need is my new IdiotSaw. We've thoughtfully silkscreened "You're an idiot" on all sides of the base to save you valuable time.
Look for our future product that will audibly berate you whenever a loud noise is detected. Accepting preorders now! You must be at least 18 to order.
-Leuf
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I don't think I will need your product. I already have one incorporated into my shop. Every time I come into the house with a new bruise, cut, bang or make to much noise in the shop SWMBO gives me the lecture.
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Oh wow, you've got voice operated IdiotSaw protection. Can't get much safer than that! :)
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I've lurked long enough. . . .
I agree with almost everyone above - that this is a great safety feature, yet that it shouldn't be forced on individuals. I agree that the company's goal is to line their pockets, but I can't begrudge someone a few bucks for what can save a lot of grief.
I am a hand surgeon in a suburb west of Cleveland, and have seen a minimum 2-3 woodworking injuries a week over the last 15 years, many of which end up in the OR. They range from close calls and nicked nails, to devastating life changing and career ending injuries. Almost everyone one of them is a table saw related injury (with a smattering of chop saws, circular saws, drills, and the occasional router or jointer), and every injury of significance involves contact with a moving (under power or coasting) blade. While most admittedly represent some error in judgment (poor outfeed support, small workpiece, blocking kickback, fatigue, lapse of concentration, etc.), they happen to the experienced woodworkers probably more often than to the inexperienced.
The best safety remains the guard and splitter (I'm ready for the assault! - but I've still NEVER seen a table saw injury that needed to see me when the guard was in place), but for people who feel better without it, this could be a great thing. (Although even SawStop recommends the guard and riving knife.)
Twenty (maybe 10?) years from now, some variation of this technology will be as standard as the on-off switch, at least in the industrial environment, and yes, it will likely be legislated. As individual woodworkers today, our best bet is to learn the technologies and encourage them, in the hope that, as Upscale said, the negative impressions will fade away when the cost decreases.
David S.
sweetsawdust wrote:

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You folks ready for the other shoe to drop? I predict that, once SawStop-type products are mandated, it will become either flat-out illegal to resell old tablesaws (Unisaws, etc.) that don't have that feature, or corporate lawyers will recommend scrapping them out, rather than exposing themselves to that liability. I also predict a sharp near-term rise in the price of Old Iron, thereby preventing me from ever being able to afford even a used one. (However, I might buy a SawStop for the local school, and donate it in exchange for their Unisaur, if I can write off the difference...)
(Oh, and Dr. Dave -- I'm amazed you see that stuff and still do woodworking... Nothing like a constant reminder, huh?)
"Chip"
, for SawStop

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, for SawStop

There is only one problem with the sawstop system. In the even of contact with a finger it throws a chunk of aluminum into the teeth of the blade. I wonder how many ruined blades there will be once people get really careless. Then when they move from a Sawstop to a "unsafe" saw then you can really watch the digits fly.
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If your finger hits the blade, the cost to replace the cartridge and blade will be slight compared to the cost of repairing a finger.
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On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 06:00:03 GMT, "Chip Chester"

otherwise it is a "taking".
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On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 11:31:03 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Yeah, tell that to everyone with a bit of "wetlands" that they can't sell or use. I'm pretty sure that they didn't get "just compensation" for that loss. Same for anyone lucky enough to own a fully automatic Thompson from the pre-gun control era - I don't think that they are allowed to freely sell those. The Gov't would just declare the saws too dangerous to sell except to collectors who have to disable the sawing capabilities of the saw ;-)
Dave Hall
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way to the supreme court who let the lower court ruling stand. Reahard won about $22 million dollars for the "taking" of 40 acres in Bonita Spirngs Florida (wetlands). There are some rules but if you bought the property and it was OK for development at that time, they have to pay you if they "take" that right away by declaring it a wetland. If you actually have someone who is being screwed have their lawyer look up "Reahard". I am not sure who was still fighting Richard Reahard by the time it got to the US court of appeals. There were several government agencies involved
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you to add a legally owned machine gun to the "registry" alas if you didn't do it by 1986 it can't be added. They cut off new machine gun additions then. Any machine gun that is in the registry can be bought and sold with the purchase of a $200 tax stamp and the OK from BATF, FBI and your local chief law enforcement official. (assmung there are no state/local laws against owning one). Check out subguns.com to see some that are for sale. If you are in a blue state it probably won't be OK with your local CLEO
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Schools and colleges/universities are already replacing old iron with Sawstops for liability reasons even without a CPSC rule.
If insurance companies get wind of the Sawstop they will probably require businesses to purchase them or lose their insurance.
Brian Elfert
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David wrote:

I'm in Europe, where SawStop is unheard of and good guards and splitters are standard. You have to be using quite old equipment to not have both, and even then most have been retrofitted. Both are mandatory for commercial machines (although you're allowed to remove guards where appropriate for a particular operation)

So why not follow Europe ? Seems like a sensible level of protection and regulation.
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On 6 Sep 2006 01:30:14 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@codesmiths.com wrote:

Every tablesaw sold in the US has a splitter and a guard. OSHA requires these to be in place during operations in all commercial settings. Quite like Europe, except you seem to have riving knives while we have splitters. Also, I would guess, just like in Europe, those who don't want to use the guards in their home workshop take them off. There are no hobby police that travel around looking in people's garages to see if their guards are in place. In commercial shops anyone who allows the guards to be removed risks a nasty visit from OSHA.
Dave Hall
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