Consumer Product Safety Comm. to discuss proposed SawStop technology safety rule

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I guess it will all come out eventually. We'll just have to wait and see.

I'll grant you it might have happened, but there's one important difference. They were/are already in business in a big way. What's the likelihood of it happening if they were a fledgling organization trying to survive?
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wrote:

the old fashion way. And, we would have to ask *why* is SS a fledgling operation....because the product is not needed or wanted by the masses. A niche market, yes. Gass cannot accept that, cannot go out and make the world understand that his product is superior, to compete in the marketplace.
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 05:56:21 -0400, Joe Bemier

enamoured with it after a couple false triggers and being "down" until you get a new cartridge. I'm sure there will be a way to bypass it on the internet but that defeats the whole purpose.
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:55:02 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Thats a good point. Around my world I only know of one SS. I heard -third party- that it misfired once already.
Actually there are two issues that make me oppose the technology-
1) If it adds significant cost 2) If it misfires, and as you say, leaves me stranded. And, then there is the cost of replacing it. I recently replaced my TS with a Grizzly 12" 5hp. However, if down the road, I need to replace and this technology is required on all saws, I will disable it if possible.
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Finding the keyboard operational Joe Bemier entered:

If you are a commercial operation, you will have to weigh the cost of the technology vs. any increase of insurance premiums and you probably want to have a spare cartridge or two around. As a home user, well as another poster points out, there has been no reported instance of anyone being injured while following proper procedures. so make sure you follow them. And as a home user, how many tablesaws are you going to buy in your life time? If you read SawStops web site, there is a disable switch. I guess thats a use at your own risk. I am not going to address the issue of personal freedom. You have your posistion and I have mine. We'll leave it at that. Bob
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Yes, another poster said replacement cartirages cost 70-90 each. I imagine after the first fire (whether it was legit or not), most consumers aren't going to cough up that much money to buy a replacement cartridge. I know I wouldn't. Maybe that makes me reckless, but I'm being honest. For example, I spent an entire afternoon trying to adjust the splitter/blade guard that came with my contractors saw.. never could get it to work right so I just tossed it in frustration. At the time, I said I'd buy an aftermarket one. But I started making stuff, and 16 years later I still haven't bought one.
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Finding the keyboard operational Joe Bemier entered:

SawStop (the product not the saw) has been available for a couple of years. When Dr. Gass approached the equipment manufacturers, they all passed on it. And they had every right to. My feeling is that no one manufacturer wanted to either decrease their margin or increase their price. Having a product that he believed in, Dr. Gass's company began making their own saw. Up to this point I don't think anyone has a problem with what went on. So then, and here begins the problem, Dr. Gass goes to Washington to appear in front of the Consumer Product Safety Commission. Now everyone gets their knickers in a twist. As of this minute, no one is telling you that you have to buy a SawStop equiped table saw. You are still free to buy what ever you like. In the future saws are going to be equiped with some form of blade stopping mechanism. Maybe only Dr. Gass's but probably not. Do you really believe that this whole thing came as a surprise to say Delta? Do you think that somewhere back in Delta's product development dept. there is someone working on a blade stopping device of their own? Now I am not addressing the subject of the individual freedom to do whatever you want to do. I have a posistion on it. You have a position on it. We can leave it at that. Respectfully Bb
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"The Other Funk" wrote in message

IIRC, wasn't there an interim attempt at using legislation to force the issue between the times mentioned above?
My take is that a lot of the anger/resistance/teeth gnashing is directly attritubutable to that previous attempt, which did appear to have a component of lawyerly arrogance parading as altruism.
In any event ... what you can bet your bottom dollar on is that BIG insurance will eventually call the shots.
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Finding the keyboard operational Edwin Pawlowski entered:

developed and patented but they never enforced the patents. In other words they gave the technology away for free. Noble, right? How many cars do you think they sold based on that commercial? More then enough to pay for the commercial? Bob
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He is and has been completely free to sell it. If that's what the public wants, all they have to do is call his company and order one. I'm beginning to think that you believe that the general public is just to stupid to know what is good for them. You and Mr. Gass, of course, are the enlightened ones.
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You're too stupid obviously. Let's keep everything free choice. To hell with seat belts. Forget laws against driving under the influence. Everybody should own an UZI. Even better, let's arm everybody with their own personal armoury of surface to air missiles. Freedom for all I say. CW says it should be that way so let's do it. Absolutely everybody with the choice to do what they want. Wouldn't it be glorious?
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Guess that's one that got by you. Maybe in your next fantasy.
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Upscale wrote:

<shaking head> sigh

Yep, that's right; giving the consumer the choice of whether or not to purchase a Sawstop is tantamount to allowing folks to be armed with surface to air missles, or the freedom to drive drunk.

The choice to do whatever one wants is NOT the issue. The issue is consumer choice.

Wow, you just throw out these pearls regardless of their relevance. Straw men just blow away.
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wrote:

laws, and UZI's for that matter protect us against third party injury. The operation of power equip is soley in the hands of the operator. Follow procedure and you won't be injured...period.

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Same stupid impossible statement. NOBODY follows procedure perfectly EVERY time. It's not humanely possible. Are you going to deny that some of the safest people have never been injured? Accidents happen. That's why they're called accidents.
I find it hard to understand how you're so down on Gass who might be attempting to mandate his product which will save people from injury, while at the same time, you're supporting the collection of manufacturers who initially refused to endorse his product because it would cost them profits even though injuries will continue. What you're saying is that it's ok for manufacturer's to make profit even though more injuries are being caused, but not ok for Gass to make a profit while preventing injuries. Is that it? You're supporting injuries to continue because you don't like how someone goes about making a profit?
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Upscale wrote:

Pot-kettle-black.
Right, uh-huh.

Your comprehension is YOUR problem, not ours. To most of us, it is perfectly clear that an individual trying to use the force of the government to coerce individual consumers to purchase his specific product under the guise of safety, is a weasle trying to make a fast buck. In other words, he can't convince me, through the open market, that I need his product. He then attempts to engage the government into *forcing* me to make the purchase via a codified mandate on the manufacturer.

How is this even REMOTELY equivalent? Opposing forced government profit-making at the consumer level does NOT equate to supporting a manufacturer. You seem to ignore the fact that the government does not require that an individual purchase a WhirlySharp; that is entirely the choice of the consumer. It is ALSO the choice of the consumer to purchase the Sawstop if s/he chooses to do so.
But wait, says Gass, let's ignore the middleman -- the marketplace -- altogether and go straight to the government. That is bogus horsepuckey. It is the same devious mindset that would cause McDonalds to go to congress and argue that "since a lot of workers go to McDs at lunch, and as a result are at risk for severe injuries or death on the road as motorists or pedestrians, the government needs to require a McDonald in every workplace building".
And as for your wrongly held notion that the manufacturers are worried about PROFIT as a motive, let me remind you of how profit is derived. All cost of goods are added up, and the product is then priced. IF Sawstop is incorporated into ALL WhirlySharps by government fiat, that cost will be passed onto the consumer, it won't be absorbed by the manufacturer. Thus, your argument that this is a PROFIT issue on the part of the manufacturers is flaccid.
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Bullshit! The cost of the product passed onto the consumer has a direct effect on how many consumers decide to actually buy that product. That effects their bottom line, AKA PROFITS. Are you really that stupid to think otherwise? God, what type of moron are you?
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Upscale wrote:

If every manufacturer is mandated to have the Sawstop, then the consumer is faced with ALL products have the same percentage rise in costs. If a consumer wants to buy a tablesaw, he'll have to pay the price increase regardless. Do ya get it now?
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And fewer consumers will buy. So, profits will go down. Does that make any sense to you at all?
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Upscale wrote:

And yet cost increases are a common occurence in virtually all segments of manufacturing, but growth in sales still continue. There is no reason to believe, nor have you supplied direct evidence to support your supposition, that tablesaw sales would go down. So no, your thoughts on the matter make no sense.
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wrote:

Same kind as me...:)

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